SC chatsession 1: 2008-04-12

The beginning has gone lost, but not much of importance was told yet. Times are CET+1

[18:46:07] @ dmaxx : "groups" instead of forums
[18:46:07] @ pusha : thats a great question, cause I dont remember which is which
[18:46:32] @ Stormbringer : Let's not focus on Discogs now!
[18:46:38] @ pusha : v3 was groups ?
[18:46:46] @ hmvh : Whoah... that's the point!
[18:47:06] @ dmaxx : pusha: i think it was
[18:47:11] @ Stormbringer : What should we do? Who should do it? When should it be done?
[18:47:14] @ dmaxx : doesn't make much diff anyway
[18:47:16] @ hmvh : v3 had the big group breakup. It sucked but is not relevant here!
[18:47:26] @ pusha : k
[18:47:26] @ Stormbringer : THAT is the hard question!
[18:47:31] @ hmvh : Turds? You had the option of turning them off.
[18:47:43] @ hmvh : From a modsPOV they were good.
[18:47:49] @ dmaxx : True...
[18:48:04] @ dmaxx : Do we all agree on WHAT we should do?
[18:48:05] @ hmvh : No limits? Sucks ass. I want limits again.
[18:48:08] @ pusha : so back to the taskforce thing
[18:48:13] @ dmaxx : We all do
[18:48:23] @ pusha : is there people here now, that want to pair off to work on something ?
[18:48:54] @ dmaxx : you mean subcommittees?
[18:48:54] @ hmvh : What exactly are we talking about here?
[18:49:06] @ hmvh : We haven't got a mission statement yet, dammit?
[18:49:13] @ hmvh : What do we want Ddb to be?
[18:49:26] @ Stormbringer : As I've written in my vision the submissions should be YES or NO! If something is YES-voted it's then really good and it wil only require updates if the system changes. Is that a too harsh system?
[18:49:30] @ hmvh : Nevermind how we're gonna go about achieving it.
[18:49:34] @ dmaxx : OK, that's the most important question
[18:49:43] @ dmaxx : WHAT do we want it to be
[18:50:05] @ quisquilia : "only require updates if the system changes" -> answer below
[18:50:10] @ dmaxx : Storm: agreed (but this is a discussion for later)
[18:50:28] @ pusha : I will agree to whatever you guys want - my only aim is to make a discogs alternitive in the spirit of the original discogs
[18:50:28] @ quisquilia : IMO a submission needs to be correct, but not 100% complete
[18:50:44] fleshmeatdoll has been disconnected the Sat 12 Apr 2008 - 18:50 (session timeout)
[18:51:12] @ quisquilia : ie stuff like credits should not be mandatory in their entirety
[18:51:26] @ hmvh : Agreed qith Q & s
[18:51:28] @ Stormbringer : I think that Pusha actually had some really importnat point in some of his posts.
[18:51:41] @ Stormbringer : We should get something online as sooon as possible!
[18:51:58] @ hmvh : All users, regardless of background, musical taste, race, religion, social standing, political leaning, geographic location, language, playback hardware or internet connection are welcome. There is no discrimination aga
[18:51:59] @ dmaxx : What do we want DDB to be: a democratic, transparent non-profit organisation for the storage of data related to audio.
[18:52:04] @ dmaxx : All agree?
[18:52:14] @ pusha : Yes
[18:52:21] @ Stormbringer : But before we're ready to do that we must write some document to the coders about what should be coded.
[18:52:24] @ quisquilia : yes
[18:52:26] @ hmvh : There is no discrimination against anyone, the site and its content is free to use by anyone and for any purpose.
[18:52:39] @ hmvh : DdB is not a file sharing site.
[18:52:48] @ hmvh : Although we acknowledge and list the existence of every audio recording available
[18:52:48] @ dmaxx : IMO not, if we don't have something solid we can't give something to the coders
[18:52:49] @ quisquilia : then, hmh, it cannot be based in the EU
[18:53:07] @ Stormbringer : Why should it be non-profit???? I don't understand that!!!!!!!
[18:53:11] @ quisquilia : because of the anti-discrimination legislation crap
[18:53:11] @ hmvh : to the general public, DdB
[18:53:20] @ hmvh : will never engage in nor support the distribution of illegal file sharing activities, nor will we deny and
[18:53:27] @ dmaxx : Storm: legal issues
[18:53:29] @ hmvh : obfusciate the knowledge of recordings made available without the copyright holder's consent.
[18:53:38] @ dmaxx : We will make profit, but it's not our goal
[18:53:41] @ Stormbringer : Let every user of the site that submits information get a snippet of that money!
[18:53:43] @ dmaxx : I hope it's not our goal
[18:53:49] @ hmvh : quisquilia: I've said that before as well.
[18:54:02] @ Stormbringer : This is part of the "pyramid" system I was talking about above.
[18:54:10] @ hmvh : DdB will not discriminate against anyone and provide the ability for all users to list items in their or their friends collection to be shared
[18:54:13] @ pusha : Thats not a bad idea - Non profit just means
[18:54:17] @ dmaxx : hmvh: agree to everything posted above
[18:54:25] @ pusha : not for the profit of a select few
[18:54:26] @ hmvh : Will we have forums? "Rules for behaviour" should be covered in the mission statement.
[18:54:34] @ Stormbringer : I haven't posted anything about that as I haven't seen "hardly any" other ideas about what the site should be.
[18:54:53] @ little_alien : ok, this is all a bit too much for me.. going to do the dishes
[18:55:02] @ hmvh : That, guys... is part of some loose notes that I call a mission statement. One that may NEVER be changed.
[18:55:12] @ pusha : LA - we will ring when something important happens
[18:55:20] @ quisquilia : storm, I disagree with a pyramid scheme for sharing profits on mmbers of the site
[18:55:25] @ dmaxx : hmvh: agreed
[18:55:41] @ pusha : ok it sounds like we have two camps here
[18:55:45] @ quisquilia : too much administration
[18:55:47] @ pusha : very basic camps
[18:55:54] @ pusha : people big on Vision
[18:55:58] @ pusha : and people big on Mission
[18:56:09] @ pusha : lets split the SC into two taskforces
[18:56:11] @ pusha : and work on each
[18:56:49] @ quisquilia : vision: DB + enhancements to be developed in phases
[18:56:50] @ pusha : then compare notes
[18:56:54] @ Stormbringer : Money rules... the only thing that attracts new coggers to Discogs is the money that tthey might gain from sails or you start a Discogs account to buy records. You can't be blind about that? Should we be a small site or a large site? THat is perhaps the q
[18:56:55] @ dmaxx : I'm cool with that
[18:57:04] @ pusha : *nods*
[18:57:05] @ hmvh : How about one topic at a time?
[18:57:22] @ dmaxx : Also cool with that Smile
[18:57:23] @ quisquilia : @storm: I agee (& want) market features
[18:57:27] @ Stormbringer : If we just ignore the "money" then most people will ignore us. Is that what we whant?
[18:57:34] @ pusha : I agree also storm
[18:57:43] @ pusha : I think your confused by the term "non profit"
[18:57:47] @ quisquilia : but I think profits of the site should ONLY be used for the site
[18:58:09] @ quisquilia : not its "owners"
[18:58:16] @ pusha : @ hmvh its a bit like working in a blender, no ?
[18:58:20] @ dmaxx : I'm cool with almost anything, as long as making profit is not our main objective
[18:58:24] @ quisquilia : hence non-profit site
[18:58:34] @ dmaxx : Yes
[18:58:46] @ dmaxx : And if we make profit... well what then?
[18:58:48] @ pusha : so ....................
[18:58:59] @ pusha : mission and vision
[18:58:59] Masakari has been disconnected the Sat 12 Apr 2008 - 18:58 (session timeout)
[18:59:07] @ pusha : who wants to work on which ?
[18:59:16] @ pusha : we have boiled it down to that
[18:59:26] @ hmvh : pusha: frog in a blender... joecartoon.com!
[18:59:40] @ pusha : lol
[18:59:47] @ quisquilia : i fail to see how those can be sharphy separated
[18:59:56] @ quisquilia : @pusha
[19:00:04] @ pusha : the are only seperated for some progress
[19:00:22] @ pusha : you cant have 11 people arguing over one thing
[19:00:32] @ pusha : if we split temporarly we might have better results
[19:00:33] @ hmvh : I'm cool with making some profit but how will we share it and re-inject it into the system?
[19:00:52] @ Stormbringer : THis is actually the first time I'm trying to discuss somethin serious with many people at the same time in a chat :-D It's obvious to me that it is a poor way of discussing things if it's something more than in general terms.
[19:00:57] @ hmvh : pusha: if only all 11 were here Smile
[19:01:31] @ hmvh : @Stormbringer - that"s why I suggested a telco.
[19:01:35] @ quisquilia : well, ok, I'm willing to work on a vision (and how to phase the realisaion of that vision)
[19:01:50] @ dmaxx : OK
[19:02:04] @ pusha : I am a mission guy I think
[19:02:07] @ Stormbringer : I think hmvh wrote above that he wanted to discuss one thing at a time... I agree with that! To be able to do that we should slow down... elect a session president who tells us when we may post.
[19:02:19] @ dmaxx : Here's a start: What do we want DDB to be: a democratic, transparent organisation for the storage of data related to audio.
[19:02:29] @ quisquilia : perhaps a couple of yous could join that camp
[19:02:55] Masakari has joined the chat the Sat 12 Apr 2008 - 19:02
[19:02:57] @ quisquilia : yes, dmaxx, no prob with those BROAD terms
[19:03:11] @ dmaxx : good
[19:03:18] @ dmaxx : that's a start
[19:03:37] @ quisquilia : problems are: how to ensure / develop "democratic" procedures?
[19:03:43] @ Stormbringer : That statement is probably something most of us can accept dmaxx...
[19:04:07] @ pusha : there are Roberts Rule of Order
[19:04:11] @ quisquilia : what kind of audio data is valid for storing?
[19:04:26] @ pusha : a nationally accepted way of decision making
[19:04:26] @ quisquilia : etc. pp. devil in details etc.
[19:04:57] @ dmaxx : allowed data is another discussion imo
[19:05:18] @ hmvh : Yes, let's leave allowed data as a subheading.
[19:05:38] @ Stormbringer : It isn't possible to keep a sytem 100% democratic. At this point we'v ealready decided that we should use representative democracy, but the representatives weren't elected by the community as you were restricted to vote for just some of the members of te
[19:05:52] @ quisquilia : @dmaxx: Just wanted to illustrate problems. Even if we all agree on those BROAD terms, we still might disagree on everything in detail.
[19:06:07] @ dmaxx : True...
[19:06:30] @ Stormbringer : THis chat cuts of long messages... just so you'll know that!
[19:06:48] @ pusha : ty
[19:07:08] @ dmaxx : Ok
[19:07:09] @ hmvh : We noticed. dmaxx, any way of allowing longer posts, even paragraphs?
[19:07:10] @ pusha : can I point something out
[19:07:19] @ dmaxx : hmvh, unfortunately not
[19:07:27] @ pusha : we have been here about an hour, and still as fragmented as we were then
[19:07:33] @ dmaxx : Not many options I can control
[19:07:37] @ pusha : we have to break into smaller groups
[19:07:43] @ pusha : to make any progress
[19:07:51] @ dmaxx : Yep, thats clear
[19:07:51] @ pusha : smaller groups with smaller focus
[19:07:59] @ quisquilia : what does "ty" mean?
[19:07:59] @ dmaxx : I couldn't agree more
[19:08:06] @ dmaxx : "thank you"
[19:08:08] @ pusha : not that I dont love the free for all
[19:08:10] @ hmvh : Fine. Now? Two groups?
[19:08:13] @ pusha : Very Happy
[19:08:14] @ quisquilia : thx!
[19:08:19] @ Stormbringer : quisquila wrote: What auidio data is valid.... WHY should it just be audio? Why can't it be DVD, books, comics, even the content of your fridge as I think Haze joked about. Why is the format a problem?
[19:08:53] @ dmaxx : We can't cataloge comics in a system designed for audio
[19:08:57] @ pusha : Two groups ?
[19:09:10] @ pusha : hmvh
[19:09:14] @ pusha : you seem like a mission guy
[19:09:25] @ pusha : would you like to work with me on such ?
[19:09:40] @ quisquilia : because that is endless, storm. We need to develop a focus and brand for that focus
[19:09:43] @ dmaxx : groups: financial + juridical // allowed data // community
[19:09:45] @ dmaxx : ?
[19:10:02] @ Stormbringer : I agree with Pusha that we need to be divided into smaller groups but first I dare you to post your visions about the new site. V2 + democracy = too little for me to be astonished about!
[19:10:12] @ quisquilia : discographyDB = audio-related DB
[19:10:36] @ pusha : Storm I dont think that is reasonable
[19:10:42] @ pusha : people just want to help
[19:10:44] @ dmaxx : I personally don't need to be astonished. Rather a small but specialised DB than a big useless one
[19:10:49] @ quisquilia : chat is no good for posting visions, storm
[19:10:49] @ Stormbringer : @dmaxx! WHY should we focus on a system for just audio then if that is going to limit us?
[19:10:50] @ pusha : not eveyone is going to have a full vision
[19:10:52] deejsasqui has joined the chat the Sat 12 Apr 2008 - 19:10
[19:11:01] @ pusha : Dee wb !
[19:11:21] @ dmaxx : Storm: but we need limits
[19:11:23] @ quisquilia : full vision of that kind = bound to failure
[19:11:26] @ pusha : not everyone has the knowledge for a complete vision
[19:11:26] @ dmaxx : Otherwise there's no end
[19:11:58] @ quisquilia : if the infrastructure is good enough, ope up a bibliographyDB site with delysid
[19:12:06] @ pusha : so ..........
[19:12:07] @ hmvh : OK, question: how long are all six members prepared to talk this out NOW?
[19:12:18] @ Stormbringer : THis chat is about what we should have been posting in the forum already in my opinion. I know what I want, what viosions I have but I don't know your visions yet.
[19:12:19] @ quisquilia : by using said infrastructure / code
[19:12:24] @ pusha : about 10 more minutes
[19:12:25] @ dmaxx : I have all day
[19:12:48] @ Stormbringer : Should the site be just about audio?
[19:12:59] @ quisquilia : YES
[19:13:01] @ little_alien : I have all evening, but I wish I had something constructive to bring forward
[19:13:02] @ dmaxx : IMO, yes
[19:13:03] @ pusha : I can go longer, and I dont want to sound threadting, but we need some progress
[19:13:10] @ hmvh : YES!
[19:13:14] @ Stormbringer : That is something we could agree upon if the sc says so!
[19:13:53] @ dmaxx : DDB = audio, think there's a majority for this
[19:14:08] @ quisquilia : guys, need to go, PM me who iis in the visions camp with me, okay? thx
[19:14:09] @ Stormbringer : I think we're putting ourselves in a weelchair by saying so but I'll agreee with you if yoy say so.
[19:14:10] @ hmvh : deejsasqui - still with us?
[19:14:26] @ dmaxx : RECORDED audio **
[19:14:31] @ pusha : rock on Q
[19:14:35] @ pusha : thank you for being here !
[19:14:43] @ dmaxx : quisquilla, bye
[19:14:45] @ hmvh : RECORDED audio, seconded.
[19:14:53] quisquilia is Disconnected on Sat 12 Apr 2008 - 19:14
[19:14:53] @ pusha : thrided
[19:15:08] @ deejsasqui : I'm re-reading, though it seems this chat doesn't really support a whole lot of history
[19:15:09] @ dmaxx : Good
[19:15:28] @ dmaxx : Ouch, I'll copy paste into notepad, HOLD ON
[19:15:40] @ Stormbringer : So what happends to all the "stuff" that is somewhere in between the normal idea of what that means?
[19:15:55] @ dmaxx : done
[19:15:59] @ Stormbringer : Discogs allows bottleopeners, should we?
[19:16:15] @ pusha : oh man ...........
[19:16:19] @ dmaxx : Only if they have an artist on them
[19:16:32] @ dmaxx : And a trackname or catalogue
[19:16:32] @ deejsasqui : off-topic: if we want to keep using this chat system, we'll have to copy + paste every x lines
[19:16:33] @ pusha : thats not the way to move this discussion further
[19:16:42] @ dmaxx : I'll do that, no prob
[19:16:49] @ Stormbringer : I still prefer that we should allow more than audio recordings to be submitted but If I'm alone I can't force you to do it my way.
[19:16:50] @ dmaxx : Will make the files available too
[19:16:53] @ deejsasqui : so we might want to look into using iRC, because that can have built-in logging

[19:17:14] @ dmaxx : mIRC is a good program Smile
[19:17:20] @ pusha : seeing as how we cant decide to tie our own shoes
[19:17:25] @ Stormbringer : IS THERE ONE SITE THAT ALLOWS YOU TO SUBMIT YOUR DVD COLLECTION?
[19:17:27] @ dmaxx : probably more flexible to our needs too
[19:17:29] @ pusha : we should probabley stick with just audio right now
[19:17:37] @ dmaxx : no timeouts there
[19:17:52] @ deejsasqui : on-topic: it's hard to tie your shoes when it involves 22 hands Wink
[19:18:00] @ Stormbringer : Why just allow the basic stuff that Discogs already does?
[19:18:01] Masakari has been disconnected the Sat 12 Apr 2008 - 19:18 (session timeout)
[19:18:03] @ dmaxx : we are audio experts, not movies
[19:18:08] @ deejsasqui : dmaxx - some servers are less strict
[19:18:09] @ pusha : nods
[19:18:14] Masakari has joined the chat the Sat 12 Apr 2008 - 19:18
[19:18:23] @ deejsasqui : sorry, but who was bringing up movies?
[19:18:29] @ deejsasqui : I missed that part
[19:18:36] @ pusha : Storm
[19:18:38] @ dmaxx : Storm
[19:19:08] @ deejsasqui : gotcha - that sounds like something we could add on later, if we really wanted.
[19:19:15] @ pusha : Storm I love ya, but we gotta set aside some of this detailed discussion
[19:19:16] @ Stormbringer : I just said that there's Discogs
[19:19:32] @ hmvh : Movies? What's the point? Then you might as well add your comics or your pet owl!
[19:19:40] @ Stormbringer : And there's nothing similar for the people with DVD collections.
[19:19:46] @ dmaxx : but Discogs is not trustworthy
[19:19:46] @ pusha : if we hold out for personal agendas here we are spinning our wheels
[19:19:51] @ deejsasqui : there's already a pretty good comic website
[19:19:54] @ dmaxx : that's no competetion for our project
[19:20:08] @ hmvh : Why stop at DVD... Super8, too!
[19:20:34] @ Stormbringer : Stop! Don't focus on the FORMAT NOW! What difference to the database would a DVD collection feature create?
[19:20:36] @ pusha : lol
[19:20:52] @ dmaxx : we have reasonable clear bounds for audio, but not for anything else
[19:20:56] @ pusha : ok really I am not going to spend time talking about DVD's
[19:21:04] @ pusha : it adds nothing to what we are tyring to do here
[19:21:08] @ Stormbringer : Some different format features and some diffrenet credits, but the rest would be the same!
[19:21:11] @ pusha : I am not trying to be a dick
[19:21:21] @ pusha : but if someone would like to discuss making a mission statement
[19:21:25] @ pusha : I am happy to do so
[19:21:30] @ deejsasqui : Wasn't there the idea that the code would be open-source, so anyone could take our basic work for their own projects, be they artist-specific dbs w/o all the verification we will require
[19:21:32] @ pusha : talking about DVDs
[19:21:39] @ pusha : I dont have time for that
[19:21:42] @ dmaxx : Yes, I want a mission statement as well
[19:22:07] @ dmaxx : DVD db should be a completely diff project
[19:22:07] @ hmvh : bounce
[19:22:11] @ deejsasqui : then if we get a good chunk of code, someone could tweak the code to support movies instead
[19:22:11] @ pusha : good
[19:22:34] @ deejsasqui : but wouldn't Audio DVDs be allowed?
[19:22:50] @ Stormbringer : Ok! So just focus on audio then if that is all you may grasp at this point!
[19:22:56] @ dmaxx : they would, if the artist = audio producer
[19:23:00] @ pusha : hmvh - you said my mission statement was to SC spacfic
[19:23:06] @ pusha : what did you mean by that
[19:23:21] @ deejsasqui : I don't think it's an issue of "grasping," but more an issue of not over-extending ourselves.
[19:23:27] @ pusha : @ storm it is all more feable brain can handle Very Happy
[19:23:35] @ pusha : you swedes are to smart for me
[19:23:56] @ deejsasqui : too smart, even
[19:24:03] @ deejsasqui : =)
[19:24:07] @ pusha : see
[19:24:10] @ pusha : lol
[19:24:13] @ dmaxx : Smile lol
[19:24:46] @ pusha : ok so lets talk mission
[19:24:57] @ dmaxx : Yep
[19:24:58] @ pusha : Storm did you read my post ?
[19:25:03] @ pusha : or anyone else for that matter
[19:25:10] @ hmvh : " Respecting each others points of view and cultures " has nothing to do with DDB but SC.
[19:25:19] @ Stormbringer : Limiting what the site will ever do already at this point is actually a pretty serious decission!
[19:25:34] @ deejsasqui : I disagree - we allow ALL recorded audio, even if it's racist.
[19:25:42] @ pusha : it is but not today storm
[19:25:56] @ pusha : ok I understand - what else HMVH
[19:25:58] @ deejsasqui : Stormbringer: yes - do you really think that Movies would mesh well with our DB?
[19:26:06] @ Stormbringer : I still think that what I've seen in regards to visions = V2 + democracy
[19:26:43] @ dmaxx : The system will be different
[19:26:44] @ little_alien : v2 + democracy is all I need from a discography site
[19:26:45] @ hmvh : " Present a new mission statement in 40 days" talks about SC not DDB.
[19:26:49] @ dmaxx : But basically... yeah
[19:26:52] @ deejsasqui : ditto
[19:26:56] @ dmaxx : That fine for me too
[19:27:20] @ hmvh : @ pusha: what do we want DDB to be?
[19:27:31] @ dmaxx : v2 was great (not perfect) and democracy is important
[19:27:33] @ Stormbringer : In my opinion that is not enough! I saw that mayday submitted a release on Discogs today! Why? Because that is the best site online. Will he submit everything again on this new Discogs V2 site? Hardly!
[19:27:35] @ deejsasqui : so nothing goes "live" (aka: visible) until it's verified
[19:27:36] @ little_alien : I also can't believe that the posts in the share your visions are so long
[19:27:37] @ hmvh : "v2 + democracy is all I need from a discography site" <-- agreed
[19:27:43] @ little_alien : visions are clear and short
[19:27:56] @ dmaxx : Storm: all we need is a devoted core
[19:27:59] @ dmaxx : The rest will follow
[19:28:00] @ deejsasqui : bbl .. gardening, sorry
[19:28:04] deejsasqui is Disconnected on Sat 12 Apr 2008 - 19:28
[19:28:08] @ dmaxx : Data accuracy must be our plus
[19:28:55] @ little_alien : yes storm, surely it's not enough, but it's a good enough vision for me. Yes I want fancy stuff like master release and setting primary artist name
[19:29:11] @ little_alien : but for me it's not essential
[19:29:43] @ dmaxx : master release: not essential indeed
[19:29:47] @ little_alien : and as dmaxx said, accuracy
[19:30:20] @ Stormbringer : I agree with dmaxx! "All we need is a devoted core" BUT WILL WE GEAT ANY DEVOTED CORE BY JUST OFFERING THE SAME THIN AGAIN?
[19:30:20] @ dmaxx : Yep. Accuracy means success
[19:30:39] @ dmaxx : Sure, we have a devoted core now
[19:30:47] @ little_alien : and to be honest, we all really just want discogs if teo wasn't such a prick with the tendency to mess things up
[19:30:50] @ dmaxx : The ppl on the forum willing to follow this project
[19:30:52] @ pusha : you will
[19:31:01] @ pusha : it happens all the time
[19:31:05] @ pusha : coke vs. pepsi
[19:31:24] @ pusha : ebay vs. ubid
[19:31:32] @ pusha : ms vs. apple
[19:31:55] @ Stormbringer : It's obvious to me now that you just want to rebuild Discogs V2 again and that is something I'm not prepared to do again as it's a waste of time!
[19:32:28] @ dmaxx : Storm: I believe it isn't... if it's managed well
[19:32:39] @ pusha : agreed
[19:32:44] @ hmvh : Whoah! We're not rebuilding v2. We want to take the positive aspects...
[19:32:45] @ dmaxx : I believe this can be a big success
[19:32:59] @ dmaxx : hmvh: also true
[19:33:03] @ hmvh : ...of v2 and learn from the mistakes of v3/v4 and re-build something new.
[19:33:09] @ pusha : Storm you are holding out your participation based on meeting your personal agenda
[19:33:13] @ pusha : before we even get out of the gate
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[19:33:29] @ pusha : your experiance and ideas are of much value
[19:33:33] @ Stormbringer : I'll listen but I'll take a step back from now on as I'm alone with another vision.
[19:33:46] @ little_alien : having discogs v2 as a (preliminary) goal and writing proper code will give us more that whatever version of discogs has ever been
[19:33:55] Masakari has joined the chat the Sat 12 Apr 2008 - 19:33
[19:34:33] @ pusha : LA - without going to technical
[19:34:33] @ dmaxx : True
[19:34:34] @ little_alien : making a master release function, or even easier, setting primary artist name should be EASY if that site had been properly coded
[19:34:42] @ pusha : what would the major differances be ?
[19:34:50] @ pusha : or rather, what would proper code bring us ?
[19:35:00] @ little_alien : ^^^^
[19:35:05] @ pusha : Wink
[19:35:37] @ little_alien : we all know how long we've been waiting for those on discogs
[19:35:52] @ pusha : nods
[19:36:01] @ Stormbringer : If I see at this point that what I want is something different than what you wnat then why should I stay?
[19:36:04] @ little_alien : and with v4 it will take months before teo can even think about getting back to those things again
[19:36:26] @ Stormbringer : V2 was ok but hardly something I wanted!
[19:36:28] @ pusha : right
[19:36:51] @ little_alien : building upon a flawed system is digging your own hole, trust me I have done it myself too Razz
[19:36:51] @ Stormbringer : I think of V2 as a least bad version of Discogs, nothing more.
[19:36:52] @ dmaxx : v2 wasn't perfect
[19:36:56] @ pusha : LA how do we use the exisiting data from discogs
[19:37:06] @ little_alien : but at least I have learned from it
[19:37:11] @ dmaxx : but we can keep what was good and drop what was bad
[19:37:20] @ pusha : not knowing the technical end, we dont have to start from scratch do we ?
[19:37:35] @ little_alien : no way
[19:37:45] @ Stormbringer : @Pusha! Alll data from Discogs is crap!
[19:37:50] @ little_alien : like said before, save stuff to xml and it can always be imported
[19:38:40] @ dmaxx : import from Discogs, but with forced quality check
[19:38:45] @ Stormbringer : Scanned images if it is actually the item you own could be used, the rest is crap in my opinion.
[19:38:48] @ dmaxx : and proof of ownership
[19:38:50] @ pusha : should we not pull together all the xml exports in one pool for this project?
[19:39:27] @ little_alien : I think that would be more work than the benefit we can get from it
[19:39:37] @ little_alien : but all that is of later concern
[19:39:37] @ pusha : I say that because I am just look for a starting point here
[19:39:58] @ pusha : *looking*
[19:40:05] @ dmaxx : I'm prepared to re-add everything from scratch, but I'm not sure if many other people want that
[19:40:08] @ hmvh : Negative: Each user is responsible for his own XML import.
[19:40:36] @ pusha : hmmmmm
[19:40:40] @ pusha : I just had a thought
[19:40:48] @ hmvh : ...and to verify that the facts are still correct and adhere to the new standards we're bound to set.
[19:40:59] @ little_alien : why is that negative?
[19:41:01] @ pusha : what if we just try and build an upload for your discogs export
[19:41:24] @ pusha : and a way to navigate your own collection
[19:41:29] @ pusha : as a starting point
[19:41:38] @ pusha : and we can build around that concept
[19:41:55] @ pusha : while we figure everything else ot
[19:41:58] @ pusha : out**
[19:42:18] @ little_alien : do we have coders yet?
[19:42:39] @ hmvh : And then? We've got a db with some old discogs data? Whoopee!
[19:42:45] @ pusha : I am sure we can find some in the Our Skills post
[19:43:14] @ little_alien : yes, and that old discogs data won't get messed up any further
[19:43:15] @ pusha : @ HMVH or they can just wait another year for us to figure out how to tie our shoes
[19:43:23] @ little_alien : nice, isn't it?
[19:43:34] @ pusha : your following my thinking LA
[19:43:41] @ pusha : its a way to pull users
[19:43:53] @ pusha : and simotanously get our own act together
[19:44:08] @ little_alien : there should at least be a primitive browsing interface of some sort then
[19:44:11] @ dmaxx : sounds good
[19:44:20] @ little_alien : so people can see the result of their efforts
[19:44:30] @ pusha : right
[19:44:44] @ pusha : and it can tie into discogs too, for market place stuff or what ever
[19:45:00] @ pusha : but it can fly under the banner of "protect your collection"
[19:45:07] @ pusha : most oggers can submit let alone code
[19:45:13] @ pusha : this is a great alterntive
[19:45:20] @ pusha : upload and sleep well
[19:45:27] @ pusha : that your collection is getting hosed
[19:45:51] @ little_alien : well, people have been making this already
[19:45:59] @ little_alien : don't have the link at hand though...
[19:46:01] @ dmaxx : but it remains private (hidden) , right?
[19:46:09] @ little_alien : it was posted in the discogs help forums
[19:46:29] @ little_alien : you could search your collection with it etc.
[19:46:32] @ pusha : I still think we could compete
[19:46:56] @ pusha : I mean we have 300 plus people that said we are pissed
[19:46:58] @ pusha : at discogs
[19:47:14] @ pusha : so as a clearing house for an alternitve we have an edge
[19:47:14] @ hmvh : Oooooh, I see some major diversion here, and me is not happy.
[19:47:16] @ dmaxx : I'm sure that we will be better
[19:47:35] @ pusha : HM only as a starting point
[19:47:57] @ dmaxx : hmvh: that's the reason why we will prob need subcommittees
[19:48:51] @ pusha : so are we talking about nothing, or does this idea have some legs ?
[19:49:08] @ dmaxx : HM = ?
[19:49:16] @ pusha : hmvh
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[19:49:21] @ dmaxx : ok
[19:49:55] @ hmvh : [Grumbling]
[19:50:02] @ pusha : lol
[19:50:10] @ pusha : speak your mind hm
[19:50:12] quisquilia has joined the chat the Sat 12 Apr 2008 - 19:50
[19:50:25] @ quisquilia : heh, 5 min or so
[19:50:26] @ dmaxx : Subcommittees: Y/N ?
[19:50:27] @ pusha : Q we have a new direction
[19:50:41] @ pusha : possibley
[19:51:25] @ pusha : what about starting with an interface for users individual xml Discogs exports ?
[19:53:27] @ dmaxx : Don't know...
[19:53:41] @ dmaxx : should be checked in some kind of way
[19:53:47] @ dmaxx : Then it's ok
[19:54:03] @ pusha : you mean data quality checked ?
[19:54:16] Masakari has joined the chat the Sat 12 Apr 2008 - 19:54
[19:54:16] Stormbringer has been disconnected the Sat 12 Apr 2008 - 19:54 (session timeout)
[19:54:22] @ dmaxx : Yes
[19:55:03] @ pusha : well if we get the most anal users
[19:55:06] @ pusha : to participate first
[19:55:10] @ pusha : that would be less of an issue
[19:55:18] @ little_alien : still some possible problems though...
[19:55:19] @ pusha : not that we wouldnt be open to all
[19:55:35] @ pusha : shoot
[19:55:52] @ little_alien : release gets uploaded througfh xml.. later a user uploads the same release, but it has been altered in discogs
[19:55:54] @ dmaxx : agreed
[19:55:54] @ hmvh : "IMO, the fastest way to make a new discography database fail will be to think of it in any way as a reaction to discogs.com."
[19:56:04] @ little_alien : we can't prevent that
[19:56:08] @ dmaxx : Limit the possibility to import to the most experienced users
[19:56:19] @ little_alien : there's no way of catching everything that can happen to a release
[19:56:50] @ hmvh : Sound familiar?
[19:57:01] @ little_alien : hmm, hmvh, then we should all go do something else
[19:57:01] @ pusha : hmvh on that premise this entire discussion is a waste of time
[19:57:07] @ pusha : we are a reaction to discogs
[19:57:11] @ little_alien : we all came here as a reaction to discogs
[19:57:18] @ quisquilia : pusha, what is the new direction?
[19:57:28] @ pusha : where is the quote from ?
[19:57:48] @ little_alien : haha
[19:57:50] @ hmvh : lazlo_nibble
[19:57:52] @ dmaxx : Never heard that sentence either

[19:57:53] @ pusha : Q - to start with we are talking about an interface
[19:57:57] @ little_alien : well at least 2 people seem to agree Razz
[19:58:10] @ pusha : for your existing xml export
[19:58:51] @ pusha : most Ogs users can not submit let alone code anything
[19:58:52] @ little_alien : too bad lazlo isn't here to explain his statement further
[19:59:03] @ quisquilia : hmm, too much stuff to read in 5 min - will do tomorrow
[19:59:06] @ pusha : so if we provide an alternive we have an opportunity
[19:59:15] @ little_alien : didn't catch it in the forums though.. haven't been up to date with everything unfortunately
[19:59:34] @ quisquilia : will go see kreuz & bili-rubin now / bye
[19:59:44] @ pusha : all right anyways - so how to work around that problem with the data
[19:59:46] @ little_alien : bye
[19:59:48] @ dmaxx : ok bye
[19:59:52] @ pusha : bye
[19:59:56] @ pusha : I have an idea
[20:00:06] @ pusha : the export would be time stamped no ?
[20:00:09] @ hmvh : Yes, it is. And I think it says everything it needs to say.
[20:00:14] quisquilia is Disconnected on Sat 12 Apr 2008 - 20:00
[20:00:21] @ pusha : so if a later time stamp of the same release is imported
[20:00:24] @ pusha : it gets regjected
[20:00:28] @ little_alien : you guys know what the bad thing is? I can still live with v4, my collection hasn't been messed up yet ...
[20:00:37] @ pusha : lol
[20:00:56] @ little_alien : ok, so I'm not a mod any more
[20:01:02] @ dmaxx : lol
[20:01:08] @ little_alien : but that has never been my core business at discogs
[20:01:08] @ dmaxx : that will change
[20:01:17] @ dmaxx : l_a, it will change
[20:01:27] @ hmvh : Let me get this straight? You want to build a haven for your XML dumps?
[20:01:32] @ dmaxx : the floodgates have just been opened
[20:01:36] @ hmvh : Where's Storm?
[20:01:48] @ dmaxx : gone
[20:01:52] @ pusha : he took his ball and went home I think
[20:02:12] @ pusha : hm only as a starting point
[20:02:21] @ pusha : we are desperate to get something happening here
[20:02:28] @ pusha : this could be simple
[20:02:57] @ hmvh : I'm listening.
[20:03:02] @ pusha : and a way to let people know there will be a full alternitive
[20:03:09] @ pusha : down the road
[20:03:46] @ pusha : the majority of users
[20:03:52] @ pusha : couldnt do this on their own
[20:04:00] @ pusha : so it has value in that regard
[20:04:25] @ pusha : and it gives us some breathing room to work on a clearer "vision" for the entire project
[20:04:35] @ pusha : I mean we can have the best plan in two releases
[20:04:46] @ pusha : best plan in two *years*
[20:04:53] @ pusha : but no one will be looking then
[20:05:09] @ pusha : here is my crystalized mission statement - released into obscurity
[20:05:18] @ pusha : so what do you do ?
[20:05:27] @ pusha : we scrape the whole idea ?
[20:05:39] @ pusha : or start with something attainable that makes sense?
[20:05:53] @ pusha : and has actaul value
[20:06:50] @ dmaxx : pusha: so you mean we let ppl add their xml's
[20:06:59] @ dmaxx : but not in the real DB?
[20:07:04] @ dmaxx : only visible for themselves
[20:07:14] @ pusha : correct
[20:07:21] @ pusha : at least to start
[20:07:24] @ hmvh : And then?
[20:07:57] @ pusha : maybe find a way to use the xmls as a foundation for phase II of the project
[20:08:02] @ dmaxx : If it's not in the real DB I don't see what could be wrong with it
[20:08:12] @ dmaxx : But only if the most experienced users are allowed to do this
[20:08:37] @ pusha : brb
[20:08:41] @ dmaxx : k
[20:09:22] @ little_alien : pff can't find the topic of that guy that has already made a collection browsing tool that accepts discogs xml
[20:09:51] @ dmaxx : you mean discogre?
[20:10:25] @ hmvh : Then all we've got is a snapshot of some old discogs data? Some people's worth? So?
[20:10:26] @ little_alien : no
[20:10:45] @ little_alien : it was posted in the discogs forums
[20:11:36] @ dmaxx : oh
[20:11:48] @ pusha : back
[20:12:08] @ dmaxx : wb
[20:12:16] @ pusha : ty
[20:12:39] @ pusha : I think the worth is it is the begining of an alterternitive
[20:12:50] @ pusha : by the community for the community
[20:13:10] @ little_alien : found it
[20:13:12] @ little_alien : http://dce.tripz.ch/
[20:13:12] @ pusha : We saw that other post - others sites are already lining up to do something simular
[20:13:25] @ little_alien : http://www.discogs.com/help/forums/topic/152370
[20:13:33] @ pusha : our angle is, we are Oggers, not jonny come latelys
[20:13:45] @ pusha : looking
[20:15:09] @ little_alien : still, that site is a bit amateur
[20:15:15] @ pusha : right
[20:15:24] @ pusha : the idea is the same
[20:15:31] @ pusha : or simular
[20:15:45] @ pusha : and you throw the combined efforts of everyone
[20:15:56] @ pusha : and maybe you got something like that but on steriods
[20:16:34] @ little_alien : but you see how many people took the time to upload their collection
[20:16:51] @ little_alien : a stunning 6 people
[20:17:50] @ pusha : that doesnt discourage me to much
[20:18:10] @ pusha : we have 300 here
[20:18:24] @ pusha : of which maybe you would get 10%
[20:18:32] @ pusha : its not a bad starting point
[20:18:49] @ pusha : the word of mouth is what will make it grow
[20:19:08] @ pusha : people think of a discogs alterntivive and say "show me"
[20:19:27] @ pusha : so the best plan in the world
[20:19:34] @ pusha : in my view, will go no where
[20:19:47] @ pusha : with out the "show me" factor
[20:20:16] @ pusha : and the window for that gets smaller each day
[20:20:52] @ little_alien : brb
[20:21:22] @ pusha : k
[20:21:29] @ dmaxx : pusha: i think we have time enough atm
[20:21:40] @ dmaxx : there's no alternative in sight
[20:21:45] @ hmvh : Sorry, it's a useless starting point.
[20:21:46] @ dmaxx : Discogs will remain fucked up
[20:21:58] @ dmaxx : So we better take our time
[20:22:09] @ dmaxx : And do it good
[20:22:17] @ hmvh : It still relies on ogs data and we're not getting people to come here instead of there!
[20:22:44] @ pusha : and your idea is ?
[20:22:58] @ dmaxx : Starting from scratch with experienced ppl
[20:23:20] @ hmvh : Something brand new, bigger, better, faster, more!
[20:23:33] @ pusha : lol
[20:23:40] @ hmvh : ...and with experienced people, which we DO have!
[20:23:58] @ pusha : well I agree with that
[20:24:13] @ pusha : but I have yet to see just how we are going to bridge that gap
[20:24:28] @ hmvh : I'm sorry, but the last 2.5hrs were a waste of time.
[20:24:30] @ pusha : granted this is our first discussion
[20:25:09] @ hmvh : 4/11 have held out.
[20:25:14] @ dmaxx : We have time to bridge the gap, just make sure the added data quality is above Discogs' level
[20:25:29] @ dmaxx : Started with 7, now with 4
[20:25:38] @ hmvh : You know what the joke is?
[20:26:02] @ pusha : a negative attitude ?
[20:26:29] @ hmvh : I've got big ideas. If you think Storm's got expectations, you haven't see mine.
[20:26:47] @ hmvh : They're not utopian either, they're quite realistic.
[20:27:04] little_alien is still trying to decide on which belgian beer to choose...
[20:27:08] @ pusha : lets hear em
[20:27:08] @ hmvh : ...and part of the plan WAS to import ogs data when we're ready.
[20:27:28] @ hmvh : But we're not ready yet. And that ogs data has to be guarded.
[20:27:54] @ dmaxx : hmvh: what are your expectations,
[20:28:04] @ pusha : and your ideas
[20:28:04] @ hmvh : ...then converted and uploaded. Some of it even "bypassing" the modding system in the interim to get the first batch of data -
[20:28:09] @ hmvh : by selected people in.
[20:28:45] @ hmvh : Then we've got some 10% of all that was in ogs. People can see then new features we're adding...
[20:29:03] @ hmvh : ...that have been lacking and will all swarm over.
[20:29:28] @ dmaxx : so far still agreeing
[20:29:30] @ hmvh : They'd be welcome to transfer their collections across...
[20:29:52] @ hmvh : ...but now they'd have to go through the regular modding process.
[20:30:10] little_alien is back
[20:30:22] @ hmvh : Someday, of course, the upload facility will be turned off and we're back to where...
[20:30:22] @ pusha : I'll buy
[20:30:44] @ little_alien : for those that care, the choice was Duchesse de Bourgogne
[20:30:44] @ pusha : how is it going to get built
[20:30:45] @ hmvh : v2/v3 would have been if things didn't turn out the way they did.
[20:30:54] @ pusha : lol @ LA
[20:31:30] @ little_alien : very fruity, I'm pleasantly surprised
[20:31:37] @ pusha : lol
[20:31:40] @ little_alien : anyhow, back on topic
[20:32:27] @ hmvh : Further above I blurted on about a "mission statement". Not for the SC but the "service"...
[20:32:47] @ pusha : yes
[20:32:48] @ hmvh : ...as a whole. We want users, everyone's welcome, blablabla.
[20:33:22] @ hmvh : Then we decide: AUDIO releases. Which are eligible. Movies? No.
[20:33:40] @ hmvh : DVD-A is audio, so yes. Similar criteria.
[20:34:11] @ hmvh : Then: What to capture of each release, each piece of plastic, aluminium, wax,, PVC, or vinyl?
[20:34:33] @ hmvh : Define parameters: What IS a release. What makes this release different from the otehr that has the same title?
[20:34:54] @ dmaxx : Yeah
[20:35:05] @ dmaxx : We need to discuss those things seperate
[20:35:12] @ hmvh : Define label? Why this label, why not that label? Company? List everything?
[20:35:28] @ dmaxx : Maybe using seperate SCs to get to consesusses
[20:35:33] @ hmvh : Yes, that's seperate stuff, that's detail... dammit, I know that!
[20:35:47] @ pusha : you've got great ideas
[20:36:22] @ hmvh : Master Release? You think MBz's cool? Bah! Me wants MASTER TRACK releases!
[20:36:35] @ little_alien : master track?
[20:37:10] @ hmvh : Writers are treated differently to "artists" as we know them so that we can extract "individual" song info, then show where that song appears, what versions of it exist...
[20:37:41] @ hmvh : ...and where those versions are available. Hell, maybe even show the lyrics (legal issues aside), who covered...
[20:37:53] @ little_alien : oh... personally I'm more release- than track oriented
[20:38:00] @ hmvh : each particular song. Why not [click here] to hear it?
[20:38:32] @ hmvh : Why is one release more interesting than the other? Because of the tracks on it? Who are..
[20:38:34] @ little_alien : go to that musicbrainz site?
[20:38:57] @ hmvh : those tracks by? Artists? Who wrote those tracks... "writers".
[20:39:07] @ hmvh : I want to eat brains for dinner.
[20:39:33] @ hmvh : Guys! The data is THERE! All we have to do is present it properly.
[20:39:59] @ hmvh : Nothing I'm proposing is so compliacted for the average ogger to submit, really.
[20:40:15] @ hmvh : too complicated.
[20:40:42] @ pusha : do you propose starting with fresh data
[20:40:46] @ pusha : or using exisiting ?
[20:40:57] @ hmvh : No.
[20:41:12] @ hmvh : Existing data is fine, as long as it's accurate.
[20:41:33] @ little_alien : in the years I have been on discogs my experience has been that even discogs v2 is too difficult for ~60% of the users
[20:41:44] @ hmvh : The data can remain but it needs a new home.
[20:41:49] @ little_alien : let alone things like ANV master release etc
[20:41:50] @ pusha : so how do we get our hands on the exisitng data
[20:41:56] @ little_alien : oh wait
[20:41:59] @ dmaxx : l_a: then those users should not submit at our site
[20:42:09] @ little_alien : this is supposed to be a positive discussion Wink
[20:42:10] @ hmvh : granted, 60% of those users shouldn't be listening to music or breathing either.
[20:42:11] @ dmaxx : if we must put users aside to guaratee quality, than be it
[20:42:33] @ pusha : hmvh
[20:42:40] @ little_alien : not submitting at our site? well I don't want to go that far
[20:42:41] @ hmvh : ...but a few basic checks will shape the data into a format that we can use.
[20:42:46] @ pusha : in five bullet points tell me the order of exectution
[20:42:51] @ little_alien : they have to be willing to learn though
[20:43:08] @ hmvh : ...and please, there's no such thing as "as on release".
[20:43:32] @ hmvh : Track 0001 becomes track A, "produced by" become "producer"...
[20:43:40] @ hmvh : we've been shaping data for years.
[20:43:59] @ hmvh : Five points? One moment.
[20:45:13] @ little_alien : to make one thing clear, I have no desire to help with a database like musicbrainz which is track based
[20:45:30] @ little_alien : none whatsoever
[20:46:32] @ hmvh : Our db will be release based, relax. It so happens to include that info as well, we've just never exploited it properly.
[20:46:33] @ little_alien : not attacking anyone here, we're all allowed to our preference
[20:47:16] @ little_alien : well I admire your faith in the submitters
[20:47:22] @ hmvh : Give me a few minutes, you'll get your five points shortly.
[20:48:02] @ pusha : k
[20:48:19] @ little_alien : ok
[20:48:43] @ hmvh : Ergh? You wanna see my old Y/N vote ratio? Coupla minutes, please.
[20:49:17] @ pusha : take your time
[20:51:13] @ dmaxx : .
[20:52:43] @ pusha : fuck it I think we should go back to electronic music only
[20:52:58] @ little_alien : Hmm Storm's message in the DC forum...
[20:53:00] @ pusha : just kidding ..............................
[20:53:09] @ little_alien : SC forum
[20:53:32] @ pusha : not surprised
[20:54:08] @ pusha : it was clear he had an agenda from the beging
[20:54:13] @ little_alien : can anybody tell me in short what his stance was then?
[20:54:15] @ pusha : no harm no foul
[20:54:22] @ pusha : my way or the highway
[20:54:25] @ little_alien : and i mean in short Wink
[20:54:33] @ pusha : that was it
[20:54:34] @ little_alien : that's short
[20:54:38] @ pusha : my way or the highway
[20:54:41] @ pusha : yeah
[20:54:52] @ little_alien : well, i have to admit I'm like that too...
[20:55:02] @ pusha : we all can be .........
[20:55:11] @ pusha : but at the same time this task is hard enough
[20:55:14] @ little_alien : but if someone has a good idea I'll be the first to support it
[20:55:27] @ pusha : right
[20:55:40] @ little_alien : strange, as we all have a common background
[20:55:43] @ little_alien : discogs
[20:55:46] @ pusha : this SC thing is a giant exercise in compromise
[20:55:53] @ pusha : its funny
[20:55:53] @ little_alien : we all liked that site one way or the other
[20:56:07] @ pusha : everyone wants to say Kevin is a fuck for doing what he did with V4
[20:56:21] @ pusha : and here we have people doing the same
[20:56:32] @ pusha : wanting it only their way
[20:56:41] @ pusha : its all good we are all human
[20:56:46] @ little_alien : I din't know it was that bad...
[20:56:46] @ pusha : I just enjoy the irony
[20:56:53] @ dmaxx : now Storm is gone, should we add azzurro?
[20:56:56] @ dmaxx : to the SC
[20:56:57] @ pusha : yes
[20:57:17] @ little_alien : he said he was going to do some heavy drinking, perhaps he already had a couple of pints too many?
[20:57:17] @ dmaxx : he has the most votes from the three who didn't make it
[20:57:43] @ dmaxx : will give Storm some time to think first
[20:57:53] @ dmaxx : and if he doesn't change his mind, do the switch
[20:57:53] @ pusha : k
[20:58:52] @ pusha : and Dee he set this whole thing up

[20:58:55] @ little_alien : I'm not getting a really positive vibe yet either, but this is just the first chat discussion
[20:59:00] @ pusha : and he keeps skipping out on us
[20:59:10] @ pusha : *nods*
[20:59:21] @ deejsasqui : eh - Storm's out?
[20:59:29] @ dmaxx : I'll try to make some rules for the next discussion
[20:59:30] @ pusha : yes
[20:59:31] @ little_alien : yes
[20:59:39] @ little_alien : https://discogs.actieforum.com/steering-committee-f18/my-resignation-from-the-steering-committee-t187.htm
[20:59:41] @ dmaxx : such as: one topic at a time
[20:59:43] @ deejsasqui : sorry - my Parents-in-law are in town (actually, living with us =) and they're full of action and activity
[20:59:45] @ pusha : he was pissed that you went gardening
[20:59:59] @ dmaxx : deej: no probz
[21:00:02] @ deejsasqui : haha .. shiite.
[21:00:04] @ dmaxx : you haven't missed much
[21:00:10] @ pusha : lmao
[21:00:15] @ pusha : just pulling your leg
[21:00:16] @ deejsasqui : I'll post my apologies to all in the SC forum.
[21:00:29] @ dmaxx : lol
[21:00:39] @ dmaxx : deej, we're just kidding
[21:00:44] @ deejsasqui : and I thought this was to be an initial "let's see how this works" thing .. mind you, I've been shiite about being involved
[21:00:45] @ pusha : atm we are waiting for hmvh to give us further details for his "vision"
[21:00:46] @ dmaxx : Storms view was too different than ours
[21:01:06] @ pusha : emmmm - ridged I would say
[21:01:12] @ deejsasqui : Yeah - seems like inclusion of movies was the main splitting point
[21:01:19] @ pusha : but god bless him he is a good buy Very Happy
[21:01:27] @ little_alien : movies?
[21:01:28] @ pusha : guy even
[21:01:29] @ deejsasqui : buy?
[21:01:33] @ deejsasqui : gotcha
[21:01:38] @ pusha : lol
[21:01:43] @ deejsasqui : movies: that's the part that I caught.
[21:01:52] @ pusha : so dee one thing that got tossed around
[21:02:03] @ pusha : but discarded was doing something simular to this
[21:02:04] @ little_alien : you'll loose me on that too.. no movies
[21:02:32] @ pusha : http://dce.tripz.ch/
[21:02:49] @ deejsasqui : ditto - focus on audio, allow others to take our db structure and modify it to their wants and needs
[21:02:49] @ deejsasqui : ditto - focus on audio, allow others to take our db structure and modify it to their wants and needs
[21:02:58] @ pusha : it was a way to xml your collection to a differant navigation browser
[21:03:27] @ deejsasqui : wow - keen stuff
[21:03:49] @ pusha : we kind of nixed it as to much of a "band aid" idea
[21:03:55] @ deejsasqui : Yeah - I was sad that no one took uo the option to do more with the "open" discogs API
[21:04:05] @ deejsasqui : or at least, I never saw it
[21:04:07] @ pusha : I kinda like it, but .....
[21:04:42] @ pusha : on a serious note - just how the hell are we going to get anything done ?
[21:04:52] @ pusha : we are in serious need of structure
[21:04:58] little_alien has no idea
[21:05:04] @ pusha : lol
[21:05:38] @ little_alien : at work I manage my little IT projects, but nothing of this scale
[21:06:03] @ pusha : and diversity
[21:06:10] @ pusha : we cant even agree on what to agree on
[21:06:24] @ little_alien : indeed, it's usually simple content management systems
[21:06:27] @ deejsasqui : we should/could start off looking at it as a small project - create a scalable DB
[21:06:41] @ deejsasqui : the trick is that there are many people with 2x as many different ideas
[21:06:54] @ deejsasqui : I like the wiki as a point of unification and meshing of ideas
[21:06:59] @ pusha : *nods*
[21:07:02] @ hmvh : I'm back!
[21:07:12] @ pusha : wb
[21:07:15] @ pusha : lay it on us
[21:07:32] @ hmvh : Yeah, sorry - I agree Storm had too much of a revenge thing going.
[21:07:50] @ deejsasqui : revenge? please elaborate
[21:07:51] @ hmvh : OK, hmvh's crude plan in more than five steps:
[21:07:57] @ hmvh : 1. We define what DdB is and what it is not.
[21:08:09] @ hmvh : a) it is a music database, allowing research into releases, labels, artists, writers, personnel, labels, companies.
[21:08:53] @ hmvh : b) it is not social site nor a blog. All users are welcome, the "social contract" thing.
[21:08:53] @ dmaxx : ok
[21:09:01] @ hmvh : c) however, people can tag their items, releases in their collections, favourite artists and set user profiles.
[21:09:09] @ hmvh : d) nobody "owns" the site, it is run as an organisation of like-minded individuals and fans (this needs more meat).
[21:09:20] @ hmvh : 2. we define what sort of data, based on physical (and possibly digital) releases we want to capture.
[21:09:28] @ hmvh : What information do we want to exract taht makes it interesting to the casual visitor and the dedicated user?
[21:09:37] @ hmvh : 3. We define those fields: What is a label exactly? Where will I find this on my release? What if there
[21:10:17] @ hmvh : are two labels, and one is a distributor? What is an artist? Why are there such funny cat#s? Why is mine
[21:10:24] @ hmvh : a promo, the other has a barcode. What is a track? What is a role, like a producer
[21:10:31] @ hmvh : or an engineer? Why would I want to add this information if it's not mandatory? What is an ANV, or a CNV?
[21:10:37] @ hmvh : Why can I add additional free-text info to tracks but is not visible immediately?
[21:10:39] @ pusha : when theres a chance - can someone define "tags" for me
[21:11:52] @ hmvh : 4. Now that I've submitted and filled out a release form, what happens next?
[21:12:00] @ hmvh : Someone moderates it. Someone checks you'vve made no mistakes (built-in checks are needed though)
[21:12:06] @ hmvh : People can submit releases and correct information, adding more later.
[21:12:13] @ hmvh : 5. How will artist, label, release etc pages look. What happens if I click on this hyperlink?
[21:12:18] @ hmvh : How is the data presented? How can I hop from one link or page to another?
[21:12:23] @ hmvh : 6. I've already submitted my stuff on ogs. Why re-do it here?
[21:12:29] @ hmvh : We provide a temporary import facility. For selected members (or all?), pressing the "submit" button means
[21:12:35] @ hmvh : it's automatically in the db -- this is a temporary gesture only! It requires you to watch your discogs
[21:12:40] @ hmvh : collection.
[21:12:53] @ hmvh : a) After this stage, nonsense counter values like artist(6) can will get amalgamated into numerical values.
[21:12:58] @ hmvh : b) some thought required here... do the stay artist (6) or become some ID? More needed.
[21:13:04] @ hmvh : 7. All future changes must be moderated, no more importing.
[21:13:11] @ hmvh : 8. Later developments: partnering with other sites, maybe even shops? Maybe our own marketplace?
[21:13:18] @ hmvh : [the end]
[21:13:34] @ hmvh : It's crude, it's rough, it's riddeld with typos but it
[21:13:37] @ pusha : nice work
[21:13:51] @ hmvh : actually supports what we all want. Including Storm.
[21:14:00] @ little_alien : not bad at all
[21:14:23] @ little_alien : even including me Wink
[21:14:35] @ pusha : wait wait
[21:14:41] @ pusha : I said five and that is 8
[21:14:51] @ dmaxx : yes it looks very solid
[21:14:52] @ pusha : this submissions needs votes
[21:14:54] @ hmvh : I aim to please Smile
[21:15:13] @ hmvh : Sorry, some could get "compacted" and combined.
[21:15:33] @ pusha : you know I am kidding
[21:16:58] @ pusha : can someone give me more detail on the term "tag"
[21:17:40] @ hmvh : In which context?
[21:18:13] @ pusha : people can tag their collection
[21:18:23] @ dmaxx : give comments to releases
[21:18:23] @ pusha : gererally I understand it
[21:18:41] @ dmaxx : or are it linked tags? tagcloud?
[21:18:41] @ pusha : ok so it is a unique comment
[21:18:45] @ pusha : to your own collection
[21:18:51] @ hmvh : "mark" their collection, track it... bad word.
[21:19:19] @ hmvh : Oh, and with "tag" I was referring to some extra fields that are PERSONAL and private to a user.
[21:19:22] @ pusha : ok look I will be honest
[21:19:27] @ pusha : I think this is great
[21:19:52] @ pusha : essentially this is more of a "mission statement"
[21:20:10] @ pusha : or rather more of the type of MS you had in mind
[21:20:14] @ little_alien : that's what I thought too
[21:20:24] @ little_alien : and it's relatively short Wink
[21:20:41] @ pusha : although it is a bit of a hyrbrid too
[21:20:57] @ dmaxx : I like it
[21:21:02] @ hmvh : @dmaxx - is there a permalink to forum posts?
[21:21:06] @ dmaxx : I propose you post it in the forums too
[21:21:18] @ dmaxx : Let me see...
[21:21:22] Gizmex : hi @ll is it chat of SC only, or can I watch also
[21:21:35] @ pusha : feel free
[21:21:47] @ hmvh : Hop in, Giz.
[21:22:07] Gizmex : thnx Herby
[21:22:19] @ dmaxx : No permalink Sad Every post has a unique number, but no way to view it by entering an adress
[21:22:21] @ little_alien : certainly not for sc only, we're no secret society
[21:22:44] @ dmaxx : SC = secret society
[21:22:50] @ dmaxx : :p
[21:23:19] @ hmvh : [gone gardening?]
[21:23:30] @ little_alien : permalink works
[21:23:38] @ little_alien : but you have to do it manually
[21:23:42] @ little_alien : I think
[21:24:02] @ little_alien : take the URL and put #postnumber behind it
[21:24:26] @ little_alien : https://discogs.actieforum.com/steering-committee-f18/my-resignation-from-the-steering-committee-t187.htm#4322
[21:24:26] @ pusha : <--- here but diseccting the hmvh post
[21:24:27] @ hmvh : https://discogs.actieforum.com/11-other-f15/visions-about-the-new-site-discographydb-t168-30.htm#4317
[21:25:01] @ dmaxx : Great!
[21:25:10] @ dmaxx : Should have known that, it's the link you get when you post
[21:25:31] @ dmaxx : Also noticed today that it is possible to host images on the forum
[21:26:39] @ little_alien : hmm, dilemma...
[21:27:19] @ dmaxx : hmvh: where can you read [gone gardening?]
[21:27:30] @ dmaxx : and what's your dilemma Smile
[21:27:35] @ little_alien : which beer to choose...
[21:27:44] @ hmvh : Isn't that what dee said?
[21:27:47] @ little_alien : at least discogs has a beers of the world forum
[21:28:11] @ pusha : theres Mr. Greenthumb
[21:28:25] @ dmaxx : hmvh: true
[21:28:29] @ little_alien : brb
[21:28:48] @ dmaxx : k
[21:28:59] @ deejsasqui : sorry, moving furnature.
[21:29:25] @ deejsasqui : my household is an active one, and I often get pulled into the various activities of the house
[21:29:40] @ deejsasqui : If anyone visits California, I'll give you the house tour =)
[21:30:06] @ dmaxx : Very Happy
[21:30:21] @ pusha : what time is available ?
[21:30:29] @ deejsasqui : re: direct links - you either have to get the # from your post when you submit it, or go into the HTML and find the link bit
[21:30:40] @ pusha : I would like a 3:30 tour and to catch the early bird dinner
[21:30:58] @ deejsasqui : for the tour? evenings and weekends, unless you call ahead and ask my wife + parents-in-law for a time
[21:31:42] @ deejsasqui : Dinner's in the works .. seriously, if anyone comes by the Central Coast in the next few months, there's a good chance you could be well fed (if you give enough fore-warning)
[21:31:55] @ deejsasqui : my parents-in-law like making food, and today it's a meal for 9 =)
[21:32:30] @ pusha : where are you at again Dee ?
[21:33:25] @ hmvh : OK, what's happening next/
[21:33:43] @ deejsasqui : San Luis Obispo, ~ 4 hours from Los Angeles and San Francisco.
[21:33:48] @ little_alien : Hoegaarden Grand Cru
[21:33:57] @ deejsasqui : hmvh: can you post your bit in the forums?
[21:34:13] @ pusha : I have been to SLO before
[21:34:14] @ deejsasqui : little_alien: how many beers do you have to choose from?
[21:34:17] @ pusha : long time ago
[21:34:21] @ little_alien : a few
[21:34:24] @ deejsasqui : it's a cozy little college town
[21:34:32] @ pusha : my suggestion for what is next
[21:34:33] @ little_alien : still from my trip to Brugge (Belgium)
[21:34:33] @ deejsasqui : tho it's up to the 80s (degrees f) today
[21:34:39] @ pusha : lets go over what you posted
[21:34:39] @ deejsasqui : maybe up to the 90s
[21:34:42] @ hmvh : @dee! Frigg, with all them typos and loose thoughts?
[21:35:02] @ pusha : I paird it down to a word doc
[21:35:13] @ little_alien : http://www.discogs.com/groups/topic/158053
[21:35:16] @ deejsasqui : @hmvh - clean it up, then post it =)
[21:35:24] @ little_alien : 2 of those gone already
[21:35:31] @ little_alien : but back on topic...
[21:35:38] @ pusha : lol
[21:35:39] @ deejsasqui : haha =)
[21:35:44] @ deejsasqui : yeah - topic
[21:35:45] @ dmaxx : The entire chat session is being saved, and will be post in the forums
[21:35:51] @ dmaxx : Will be the longest post ever Smile
[21:35:55] @ pusha : lets try an experiant with those of us here
[21:35:58] @ deejsasqui : dmaxx - thanks!
[21:36:04] @ deejsasqui : ok .. I gotta be gone now
[21:36:07] @ deejsasqui : more shopping =\
[21:36:08] @ little_alien : I'm not ashamed of my beer choice Wink
[21:36:09] @ pusha : lets take section 1 of hmvh's is post
[21:36:17] @ dmaxx : deej, bye
[21:36:22] @ dmaxx : ok
[21:36:22] @ pusha : and see if we can agree or disagree on some of it
[21:36:25] @ hmvh : Toodles.
[21:36:25] @ dmaxx : good
[21:36:52] @ pusha : everyone game ?
[21:36:56] @ hmvh : Before we go any further, one thing:
[21:36:58] @ pusha : well all four of us anyhow
[21:36:59] @ pusha : lol
[21:37:01] @ pusha : k
[21:37:41] little_alien has no significant social life, so he is game
[21:37:54] @ hmvh : This is a loose vision. In the spirit of transparency (great pun, huh?) - we should word this properly, agree on it, and post it for the ...
[21:38:32] @ hmvh : ... general populace to agree on. We give them, say, a week or two, and that's the charter, the law of DdB.
[21:38:50] @ dmaxx : I agree
[21:38:50] @ hmvh : Once done, it goes into the wiki and whatever we use to document our steps.
[21:38:55] @ dmaxx : But termain = one week
[21:39:04] @ pusha : agreed
[21:39:07] @ hmvh : In the interim, of course we can start the next step.
[21:39:17] @ dmaxx : Every SC member should be present at least once a week IMO
[21:39:18] @ pusha : woot
[21:39:23] @ pusha : lets get cracking
[21:39:33] @ dmaxx : Good, lets move forward
[21:39:34] @ pusha : hm you are doing a great job of leading the charge
[21:39:40] @ pusha : I defer to you
[21:40:10] @ pusha : do you have your post ready to cut and past e ?

[21:40:19] @ little_alien : well at lkeast he has some ideas.. I wish i had them too
[21:40:23] @ pusha : because I do
[21:40:31] @ dmaxx : Let's do it one step at a time
[21:40:45] @ pusha : yes
[21:40:52] @ dmaxx : And make a nice document to post in the forums Smile
[21:40:54] @ hmvh : And clean out the typos... this is random mayhem.
[21:41:11] @ pusha : mayhem is good
[21:41:15] @ pusha : lets ride the wave
[21:41:17] @ pusha : Very Happy
[21:41:47] @ pusha : ok the first section was
[21:41:49] @ pusha : We define what DdB is and what it is not
[21:41:56] @ pusha : item 1
[21:42:04] @ pusha : it is a music database, allowing research into releases, labels, artists, writers, personnel, labels, companies
[21:42:42] @ dmaxx : personnel?
[21:42:46] @ pusha : I agree with most - but ..........
[21:42:49] @ dmaxx : can't we rephrase that?
[21:42:50] @ pusha : exactly
[21:42:57] @ pusha : is that engineers ?
[21:43:02] @ pusha : band memebers ?
[21:43:06] @ pusha : we need to define that
[21:43:16] @ dmaxx : Other [Cookies By] -
[21:43:24] @ pusha : lmao
[21:43:25] @ dmaxx : personnel
[21:43:29] @ little_alien : Published By
[21:43:35] @ little_alien : Managed By
[21:43:46] @ little_alien : Discovered By
[21:43:50] @ hmvh : Groupies?
[21:43:57] @ dmaxx : hmmm... "related people"
[21:44:02] @ pusha : ok lets slow it down
[21:44:24] @ pusha : which of these are we going to include ?
[21:45:02] @ hmvh : All. I did put some thought into that.
[21:45:05] @ pusha : I am speaking in regards to personel
[21:45:15] @ dmaxx : I'd say all... completeness
[21:45:39] @ dmaxx : Who are we to decide who's good enough and who isn't
[21:45:41] @ little_alien : why go into detail
[21:46:02] @ pusha : as much as I am more of a functional guy
[21:46:12] @ little_alien : or include something about musical personel
[21:46:19] @ pusha : I would say the general direction the Ogs has been heading for awhile now
[21:46:23] @ pusha : is completetion
[21:46:23] @ little_alien : as in involved with the music production
[21:46:49] @ hmvh : "personnel" includes anyone who was involved in the creation: producer, drummer, programmer, vocalist...
[21:47:10] @ pusha : so band members ?
[21:47:21] @ dmaxx : no
[21:47:24] @ dmaxx : that's something else
[21:47:27] @ hmvh : ...the lot: We don't need to define each and every role/credit we want to capture now.
[21:47:31] @ dmaxx : engineered by
[21:47:35] @ little_alien : the mixing engineer is usually not a band member
[21:47:39] @ dmaxx : also falls in that category
[21:47:59] @ pusha : I am for not defining everything right now
[21:48:06] @ dmaxx : "associated people", "relate people", ... ideas?
[21:48:13] @ pusha : I can work with "personnel" to be defined
[21:48:18] @ little_alien : "personel involved in the production"
[21:48:19] @ hmvh : Yes & No: Band members belong to the band/artist. Everyone who is LISTED on the release... that's the keyword.
[21:48:51] @ little_alien : brb
[21:49:19] @ dmaxx : "personal involved in the production" good enough for me
[21:49:41] @ pusha : in production and supporting roles
[21:49:45] @ pusha : Very Happy
[21:49:54] @ pusha : or nay ?
[21:50:01] @ hmvh : ... or recording. Stop thinking electronic Smile
[21:50:08] @ little_alien : yay
[21:50:45] @ pusha : I dont know that productin is exclusive to electronic or exclusive of "recording"
[21:51:04] @ pusha : we could add it though
[21:51:05] @ pusha : to read
[21:51:22] @ hmvh : "personel involved in the recording, production, or performance"
[21:51:40] @ little_alien : cheers
[21:51:52] @ pusha : but what about others
[21:52:03] @ pusha : like photography or managed by ?
[21:52:16] @ dmaxx : personal involved in creating this release
[21:52:22] @ pusha : not that I dont like the phrasing of the above, because i do
[21:52:47] @ pusha : ok I have a catch all
[21:52:49] @ dmaxx : personal involved in creating this release & beyond
[21:52:55] @ pusha : I like what hmvh wrote
[21:52:56] @ dmaxx : lol
[21:53:06] @ pusha : then how about, for now, subordinate roles
[21:53:07] @ dmaxx : it's fine for me too
[21:53:12] @ hmvh : ...photography I'm not against entirely but let's not get into that level of detail now.
[21:53:17] @ pusha : or rather "subordinate roles"
[21:53:33] @ pusha : subordinate to the release is the idea anyhow
[21:54:04] @ pusha : going once
[21:54:06] @ pusha : twice
[21:54:14] @ pusha : ok
[21:54:18] @ dmaxx : thrice
[21:54:18] @ hmvh : OK.
[21:54:22] @ dmaxx : ok for me too
[21:54:28] @ little_alien : ok
[21:54:34] @ dmaxx : nice
[21:54:36] @ pusha : so it now reads
[21:54:43] @ dmaxx : partial consesus
[21:54:55] @ pusha : it is a music database, allowing research into releases, labels, artists, writers, personnel involved of he recording productin and performance, labels, companies
[21:55:07] @ pusha : minus the typos of course
[21:55:25] @ dmaxx : music db -> audio db
[21:55:37] @ dmaxx : audio db -> recorded audio db
[21:55:41] @ little_alien : spoken word should be included indeed
[21:55:45] @ hmvh : ah, the typos add charm and a sense of professionalism.
[21:55:50] @ pusha : and to be clear, we are leaving off the "subordinate roles" idea, correct ?
[21:56:02] @ hmvh : recorded audio, yes.
[21:56:05] @ dmaxx : y
[21:56:22] @ hmvh : correct
[21:56:27] @ pusha : k
[21:56:30] @ pusha : cool
[21:56:39] @ pusha : next
[21:56:42] @ pusha : "is not social site nor a blog. All users are welcome, the "social contract" thing"
[21:57:03] @ dmaxx : i think that speaks for itself
[21:57:22] @ dmaxx : ask registration fee?
[21:57:37] @ dmaxx : to seperate serious from non-serious
[21:57:43] @ hmvh : That second part needs to be fleshed out a lot more...
[21:58:00] @ pusha : I am not for the fee idea
[21:58:26] @ pusha : should we leave the fleshing for later ?
[21:58:46] @ dmaxx : Sure
[21:58:54] @ little_alien : registration fee? hmmz, I was never a discogs advanced member myself
[21:59:04] @ hmvh : No, I'd go with free for all (must be mentioned) - the data can be used by everyone free of charge (makes it attractive to others)...
[21:59:07] @ dmaxx : me neither
[21:59:29] @ dmaxx : i'd like somehow to allow only serious users to submit
[21:59:36] @ pusha : ok I will add "free" to the verbage
[21:59:38] @ dmaxx : on an accountbasis
[22:00:09] @ hmvh : ...but a negligible maintenance fee may be charged for those interested in actively contributing... blabla.
[22:00:15] @ little_alien : how does one become a "serious" user
[22:00:49] @ pusha : lol
[22:00:52] @ little_alien : submission limits are good enough for me to seperate the clueless from the advanced
[22:00:58] @ pusha : I get D's point though
[22:01:01] @ hmvh : <grin>
[22:01:13] @ pusha : I grabbed your verbage H
[22:01:16] @ little_alien : users that refuse to communicate -> no-vote
[22:01:22] @ pusha : I think it is a good thought
[22:01:24] @ dmaxx : good
[22:01:43] @ pusha : next ?
[22:01:45] @ dmaxx : we can make proof of ownership mandatory to see if someone is serious
[22:01:49] @ dmaxx : next
[22:01:57] @ pusha : however, people can tag their items, releases in their collections, favourite artists and set user profiles
[22:02:11] @ hmvh : little_alien: My philosophy too but that belongs to the modding portion.
[22:02:14] @ pusha : tags needs some defining
[22:03:04] @ hmvh : "mark", grade, describe...
[22:03:11] @ hmvh : review...
[22:03:13] @ dmaxx : tag -> comment on their
[22:03:36] @ hmvh : "personal comments"!
[22:03:49] @ pusha : damm your good
[22:04:04] @ pusha : yeah that has a ring
[22:04:37] @ dmaxx : yep
[22:04:40] @ dmaxx : that's it
[22:04:43] @ dmaxx : kaboom
[22:04:45] @ pusha : people can tag releases, artist or items in the collections with personal comments"
[22:04:50] @ hmvh : Oh, I charge $50 an hour for this discussion Smile
[22:05:00] @ pusha : and also customize their user profile
[22:05:07] @ pusha : sweet
[22:05:16] @ dmaxx : the cost is $50, so it equals
[22:05:18] @ pusha : send the bill to portland oregon
[22:05:25] @ hmvh : Yep! Advertising a little is good.
[22:05:31] @ dmaxx : Very Happy lol
[22:05:44] @ little_alien : $50, that's like €10?
[22:05:49] @ pusha : ok so do we like the above ?
[22:05:53] @ dmaxx : we're making some nice progress
[22:06:03] @ dmaxx : approx 25 / 30 eur
[22:06:03] @ pusha : indeed
[22:06:14] @ dmaxx : I like it
[22:06:15] @ hmvh : 28 euros. I'm a slut.
[22:06:18] @ dmaxx : Y (50/100)
[22:06:19] @ little_alien : that was a joke, you killed it
[22:06:30] @ pusha : " people can tag releases, artist or items in the collections with personal comments and customize their user profile
[22:06:37] @ pusha : we like ^^^^
[22:06:43] @ dmaxx : Smile
[22:06:57] @ hmvh : yo!
[22:07:11] @ pusha : and you guys leave my dollar alone please - it has enough trouble as it is
[22:07:24] @ little_alien : from a technical perspective, adding a note to each release is not an issue either, just don't make it whole stories
[22:07:32] @ pusha : ok this next one is a good'n
[22:07:38] @ pusha : ) nobody "owns" the site, it is run as an organization of like-minded individuals and fans (this needs more meat]
[22:08:05] @ hmvh : where's fleshmeatdool when we need him?
[22:08:10] @ pusha : lol
[22:08:41] @ pusha : i've always felt
[22:08:55] @ pusha : that discogs would reep many benefits from working with the industry
[22:09:25] @ pusha : to clarify, I am just saying that we should be "open to the idea"
[22:09:26] @ hmvh : "discogs would reep many benefits from working with the industry" quoted for truth!
[22:09:54] @ pusha : and the community for that matter
[22:10:00] @ pusha : but that is a another disucssion
[22:10:02] @ pusha : lol
[22:10:14] @ hmvh : We should want labels to SEND us stuff to submit so that they MAY be listed in our DB. Too arrogant?
[22:10:19] @ dmaxx : "the site is public domain, it is run as an organisation on a voluntary basis by like-minded individuals"
[22:10:34] @ pusha : I agree H
[22:10:39] @ hmvh : NO!
[22:11:19] @ hmvh : The data is public domain.
[22:11:19] @ little_alien : I feel no immediate urge to get the "industry" into this
[22:11:22] @ dmaxx : maybe pano can do this better, he's an accountant and lawyer
[22:11:37] @ dmaxx : hmvh: true... better change what I said
[22:11:42] @ pusha : he site is public domain, it is run as an organisation on a voluntary basis by like-minded individuals and open to working in cooporation with the industry
[22:11:47] @ little_alien : we haven't heard from pano in ages, have we?
[22:11:53] @ dmaxx : l_a: me neither, it's not a priority
[22:12:06] @ dmaxx : he's busy for his work
[22:12:09] @ pusha : H I am not sure if you are being serious or not
[22:12:14] @ dmaxx : got promotion or something
[22:12:17] @ pusha : am I in the minority on the idustry thing ?
[22:12:19] @ little_alien : so am I usually :-S
[22:12:35] @ hmvh : ...was about to write similar. We need some legal advice, let's not commit this to the constitution just yet.
[22:12:39] @ dmaxx : pusha: maybe when the db is fully running
[22:12:48] @ little_alien : well, I'm not against the industry thing, but you know how they are
[22:12:53] @ pusha : kool
[22:13:02] @ pusha : yeah no worries
[22:13:17] @ little_alien : as a mod I've had enough trouble with artists and label owners
[22:13:29] @ hmvh : Not, all, I've had some pleasant feedback from labels.
[22:13:29] @ pusha : lol
[22:13:38] @ hmvh : Although some can be outright cunts, too!
[22:13:50] @ pusha : it really should be a mutually beneficial relationship
[22:13:57] @ little_alien : they have this "I'm the artist/label owner so this is how all of you should list things" attitude
[22:14:02] @ dmaxx : label owners don't know how to submit and are very stubborn
[22:14:17] @ pusha : moving on - we agree not to tackle this particular line at the moment then ?
[22:14:33] @ dmaxx : i agree, not enough knowledge
[22:14:36] @ little_alien : agreed
[22:14:38] @ hmvh : We're THE database, and it's in your interest to list your shit the way we say, or fuck off.
[22:14:55] @ pusha : now I like that
[22:14:56] @ little_alien : we have to become THE database first Wink
[22:15:04] @ pusha : ok next
[22:15:05] @ dmaxx : ^ yep, but worded friendly Smile
[22:15:06] @ hmvh : ...back on topic. Let's keep it vague for now, we really need more advice first.
[22:15:18] @ pusha : 2. we define what sort of data, based on physical (and possibly digital) releases we want to capture
[22:15:38] @ pusha : What information do we want to exract taht makes it interesting to the casual visitor and the dedicated user
[22:15:45] @ hmvh : That's part 2... not the mission statement, ladies!
[22:16:22] @ pusha : ok well that was it then for the first portion
[22:16:24] @ dmaxx : big part
[22:16:59] @ hmvh : Actually, the important part... the one that says we're behind this and we want to see this through.
[22:17:05] @ dmaxx : start: "every recorded audio accross every genre or style with exception of <homedj shit>)
[22:17:33] @ hmvh : ^^can do Wink
[22:18:07] @ dmaxx : the hardest part is online media
[22:18:16] @ little_alien : it's getting late for me
[22:18:17] @ dmaxx : have seen many discussion about it
[22:18:26] little_alien is going to log out
[22:18:28] @ pusha : lets do this
[22:18:35] @ dmaxx : yep
[22:18:36] @ hmvh : Likewise.
[22:18:37] @ little_alien : bye guys
[22:18:39] @ pusha : wrap it up for today
[22:18:41] @ pusha : tongiht
[22:18:47] @ pusha : and continue ?
[22:18:48] @ hmvh : tonight Smile
[22:18:50] @ dmaxx : bye little_alien
[22:18:57] @ pusha : I could do tomorrow
[22:18:58] @ dmaxx : I'd like to continue
[22:19:00] @ little_alien : 22:18 here
[22:19:03] @ pusha : same time in the morning
[22:19:11] @ pusha : D - lol
[22:19:14] @ pusha : you are a trooper
[22:19:14] @ hmvh : 22:19
[22:19:16] @ dmaxx : I'll be here
[22:19:35] @ dmaxx : Same starting time as today, OK?
[22:19:40] @ little_alien : I'll be keeping an eye on the chat tomorrow too
[22:19:51] @ dmaxx : We made some nice progress in the end! Very Happy
[22:19:53] @ pusha : sounds good to me
[22:19:55] @ hmvh : Let's try, can't promise anything tho.
[22:19:58] @ pusha : we did
[22:20:06] @ pusha : the first hours were worth it to get to this point
[22:20:19] @ pusha : H you did lots aleady
[22:20:22] @ dmaxx : OK, see you all tomorrow then
[22:20:30] @ pusha : its appreciated
[22:20:34] @ pusha : sounds good
[22:20:35] @ hmvh : Over and out.
[22:20:35] @ dmaxx : I'll post everything from here in the forums
[22:20:39] @ pusha : have a good night guys
[22:20:52] @ dmaxx : Bye everyone

In the first part of the session there was a lot of chaos and scattered ideas. Maybe we were with too many, I don't know.

However, in the second part, we have managed to get to some decent results. hmvh posted a marvelous basic plan to get things going, which we (hmvh, pusha, little_alien and dmaxx) discussed one point at a time (to propose to the entire SC for approval at a later date). We have come to some good conclusions (which were all noted down), and discussions are very likely to continue tomorrow.

I think the balance of the effort is positive, the second part made much good from the failed first part. The biggest negative result is Stormbringer resigning from the team, hopefully he will remain part of this project.

For those interested: the chat session gets most interesting from [21:07:51] onwards.

Hopefully we have learned from our mistakes today => one discussion at a time!

Greetings to all,
Maxime.

Sorry I missed this, thanks for posting the transcript. Is it viewable by non-SC members?

MR_E wrote:

Is it viewable by non-SC members?

Yes, the entire subforum is.