SC chatsession 2: 2008-04-13

Times are CET+1

[17:10:43] dmaxx has joined the chat the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 17:10
[17:13:55] little_alien has joined the chat the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 17:13
[17:14:15] @ dmaxx : Hi l_a
[17:14:18] @ little_alien : don't expect too much from me, I have a bit of a headache Sad
[17:14:21] @ dmaxx : Nice to see you here
[17:14:22] @ little_alien : hi
[17:14:27] @ dmaxx : Oh ok
[17:14:33] @ dmaxx : Be better soon!
[17:15:04] Iron_Fist has joined the chat the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 17:15
[17:15:26] @ dmaxx : Iron_Fist hi
[17:15:33] Iron_Fist : hello guys
[17:15:42] @ little_alien : it's not severe, just an annoying light one
[17:15:44] @ little_alien : hi
[17:15:46] Iron_Fist : are non-members of the SC allowed to comment too?
[17:16:29] @ dmaxx : Sure
[17:16:40] @ dmaxx : But decisions are made by SC
[17:16:56] Iron_Fist : ok cool
[17:17:10] @ little_alien : the more i read of Storm's posts, the more I agree with him that his vieuwing point is different from ours
[17:17:24] Iron_Fist : I haven't read all the chat session from yesterday, but could someone sum up the decissions made?
[17:17:25] @ dmaxx : Yes it is
[17:17:27] @ little_alien : what I'm wondering is, why haven't i noticed this before???
[17:17:35] Iron_Fist : yes it is
[17:17:48] @ little_alien : this is all kind of a surprise to me
[17:17:53] @ dmaxx : Iron_Fist, they were noted down by some of the ppl (not me)
[17:18:05] Iron_Fist : I think allowing DVDs and all is going way too far
[17:18:05] @ dmaxx : But they are also logged and posted in the SC forum
[17:18:22] @ dmaxx : I agree, it is unrealistic
[17:18:30] @ dmaxx : It is not what we do
[17:18:55] Iron_Fist : the name "DiscographyDB" says it all: audio recordings
[17:19:08] @ dmaxx : Yep
[17:19:13] Iron_Fist : I wonder why Storm didn't post his visions before
[17:19:16] @ little_alien : my idea always was that basically we want a discogs-like site that does work...
[17:19:28] Iron_Fist : ^^exactly
[17:19:29] @ dmaxx : Same as mine
[17:19:50] @ dmaxx : Discogs v2, but without all negative aspects
[17:20:01] @ little_alien : indeed
[17:20:14] Iron_Fist : There was something contradicting in Storm's posts yesterday:
[17:20:22] @ dmaxx : I know it is possible, but there's still a long road ahead of us
[17:20:44] Iron_Fist : 1. He wants to compete with Discogs (attract many new users)
[17:20:44] Gizmex has joined the chat the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 17:20
[17:20:53] @ dmaxx : Welcome Gizmex
[17:21:02] Iron_Fist : 2. He wants an accurate DB and make images mandatory
[17:21:05] Gizmex : Hi dmaxx Hi @ll
[17:21:10] Iron_Fist : how can those fit together?
[17:21:28] Iron_Fist : hi Giz
[17:21:34] @ little_alien : he'll loose me as I'm not going to get a scanner just for a discography site
[17:22:01] Iron_Fist : Making images mandatory IS NEVER going to attract many users
[17:22:10] @ dmaxx : Iron_Fist, I understand that POV
[17:22:18] @ little_alien : if he wants proof, I'm happy to tell every little detail about the release...
[17:22:22] corne_mo has joined the chat the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 17:22
[17:22:29] corne_mo is Disconnected on Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 17:22
[17:22:29] @ dmaxx : In theory I'd like them mandatory too
[17:22:34] @ dmaxx : But I know it's not realistic
[17:22:35] Iron_Fist : And honestly, I don't care if we're not as "popular" as Discogs. I want to have a reliable DB
[17:22:46] @ dmaxx : ^ Couldn't agree more
[17:23:15] @ dmaxx : By the way: If we are accurate, popularity will automatically follow
[17:23:24] Iron_Fist : I'm even willing to pay for the DB to stay alive
[17:23:26] @ dmaxx : As Discogs will not be competition for us
[17:23:31] Gizmex : In theory I also for mandatory, but what with users without scanners/camers? How to solve this?
[17:23:34] @ little_alien : indeed, I don't want to get back at discogs, I just want to look up data and list my collection
[17:23:37] Iron_Fist : I think and hope so
[17:23:41] @ dmaxx : ^ That's the problem
[17:24:15] @ dmaxx : But I do agree on making proof of ownership mandatory
[17:24:29] @ dmaxx : Lowlevel pics for example
[17:24:41] @ dmaxx : Taken by a mobile
[17:24:45] Iron_Fist : @ dmaxx and Giz - I've always wanted images mandatory (it m,akes moderating so much easier), but as you said it's not realistic
[17:24:58] @ dmaxx : However, we should encourage it
[17:25:06] @ little_alien : if one can list lots of details about a release that's fine enough for me to prove ownership, doesn't really have to be an image
[17:25:13] Iron_Fist : ^^indeed
[17:25:20] Iron_Fist : @dmaxx
[17:25:39] @ dmaxx : Details could be taken from another site (Discogs for example)
[17:25:41] @ little_alien : but images are of course desirable
[17:25:50] @ little_alien : oh yes...
[17:25:52] @ little_alien : hmmz
[17:26:04] Iron_Fist : the problem is that without images, trouble-makers can easily create fake releases
[17:26:06] @ dmaxx : Making proof mandatory = no websubs Smile
[17:26:19] @ little_alien : but then again, discogs is still quite accurate as a whole
[17:26:23] Gizmex : we can make something like tickbox in the profile "do You have scanner". For thos who fill the box with answer "yes" --> mandatory is to add a pics, could be a solution
[17:26:27] Iron_Fist : people can always create proof
[17:26:32] @ dmaxx : For now Smile
[17:26:54] @ dmaxx : Gizmex: if it's mandatory in that case, ppl will not check it
[17:27:07] Iron_Fist : lol
[17:27:16] @ dmaxx : We could create two diff queues: one with proof and one without
[17:27:25] @ dmaxx : And make those without go slower
[17:27:31] Iron_Fist : I'll go get something to eat
[17:27:48] Gizmex : If someone will answer "no" & he will be adding releases without cover & he will be a websubmitter. This user soon will be catched as websubmitter
[17:27:51] Iron_Fist : agreed on the queue thing
[17:28:01] @ little_alien : we don't even have to "make" it go slower
[17:28:10] Iron_Fist : great idea dmaxx
[17:28:14] @ dmaxx : True
[17:28:32] @ dmaxx : I'll note it down and propose it at the forums later
[17:28:34] Iron_Fist : I would honestly almost only mod subs with images
[17:29:00] @ dmaxx : Yes me too
[17:29:09] @ dmaxx : And only submit with images as well
[17:29:14] @ dmaxx : Make submitting an art
[17:29:15] Iron_Fist : I just don't feel confident enough to mod subs without images anymore
[17:29:37] @ dmaxx : Taking pride in correct subs
[17:30:02] Iron_Fist : There are very trustworthy submitters that sub without iamges though, LA for instance
[17:30:26] Gizmex : we had on discogs topic "websubmitters" but users pointed in this topic were almost without any restrictions. As I remember there was an idea to put a small sign to a user cought with a websub, that's I think good idea
[17:30:53] @ dmaxx : ^ Excellent
[17:30:56] @ little_alien : heh I can verify every submission of mine Wink
[17:31:00] @ dmaxx : Or ban them from submitting at once
[17:31:47] Gizmex : ban, or give one yellow card before red one
[17:31:53] @ little_alien : in discogs (pre v4) websubmitters were also spotted quickly, so I wouldn't worry about the image thing too much
[17:32:19] @ dmaxx : True. Only exception are the Croation Trance subs
[17:32:27] @ little_alien : oooh yes...
[17:34:03] @ dmaxx : l_a: have you written down our conclusions from yesterday? Or was it someone else?
[17:34:38] @ little_alien : I haven't written down anything
[17:35:14] @ dmaxx : Probably hmvh then
[17:35:21] @ dmaxx : Or pusha
[17:35:32] @ dmaxx : Anyway, the complete conversation is stored
[17:38:15] @ dmaxx : I see hmvh is online at the forum
[17:38:21] @ dmaxx : I hope he will join us here soon
[17:38:51] Iron_Fist : comment about subs with image queue: what to do about subs with only the front cover image taken from the web?
[17:38:54] Iron_Fist : this happens a lot
[17:39:20] @ dmaxx : Good question
[17:39:35] hmvh has joined the chat the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 17:39
[17:39:37] @ dmaxx : I'd say disallow
[17:39:46] @ dmaxx : As that's no decent proof
[17:39:52] @ dmaxx : Hi hmvh
[17:40:11] Iron_Fist : I think minimum size of images should be increased
[17:40:15] Iron_Fist : Yo hmvh
[17:40:38] Gizmex : Hi Hmvh
[17:40:48] Iron_Fist : so minimum 2 images to be in the subs with image queue?
[17:40:53] @ dmaxx : Iron_Fist: yep
[17:41:03] Gizmex : 3rd que. "Que with suspicious images"
[17:41:04] @ dmaxx : 2 different images
[17:41:06] @ little_alien : for some releases I did take a (bad with flash) pic because it would be hard to proove otherwise: http://www.discogs.com/release/429085
[17:41:07] Gizmex : ;D
[17:41:44] @ dmaxx : little_alien: and it shouldn't be more
[17:41:49] Iron_Fist : hmm that steak was good
[17:42:12] @ hmvh : Hi guys.
[17:42:23] @ little_alien : hello
[17:42:43] @ hmvh : To answer a few questions:
[17:43:23] @ hmvh : Just readwhat's been said here s long.
[17:43:42] @ hmvh : Pusha wrote/documented our vision yesterday.
[17:43:54] @ dmaxx : Nice
[17:43:59] @ hmvh : That mission, properly worded, should be made available to the SC.
[17:44:18] @ hmvh : The SC works on it, fleshes it out, decides if it's good to go.
[17:44:32] @ hmvh : ...and makes it available for everyone to see.
[17:44:40] @ dmaxx : Yes
[17:44:50] @ hmvh : If everyone (majority) is good with the direction we're taking, then
[17:44:51] @ dmaxx : Everyone can see the forum al ready
[17:45:06] @ hmvh : that becomes the CONSTITUTION of DdB.
[17:45:18] Iron_Fist : so what's today's session goal?
[17:45:29] @ hmvh : You guys understand what I mean by CONSTITUTION and why I chose that term?
[17:45:40] @ dmaxx : Finish what we started yesterday?
[17:45:51] @ dmaxx : Yeah, because it's permanent. Right?
[17:45:53] @ hmvh : @Iron_Fist: Not sure, actually, it was pusha's idea.
[17:46:15] Iron_Fist : where's the mission been posted at?
[17:46:39] @ hmvh : Well, so far the constitution allows audio recordings only, and that's possibly where we lost Storm.
[17:46:40] @ dmaxx : It's not finished yet.
[17:46:55] Iron_Fist : yeah I saw that
[17:46:57] @ hmvh : Oi, come back Giz!
[17:47:08] Iron_Fist : sad, ver sad
[17:47:19] Gizmex : I'm here
[17:47:33] @ dmaxx : Ghost mode?
[17:47:40] Iron_Fist : gray on gray is hardly readable
[17:47:40] Gizmex : Smile
[17:47:45] Iron_Fist : Smile
[17:48:01] @ little_alien : purple has been taken already Wink
[17:48:16] Gizmex : ok now
[17:48:21] @ dmaxx : I'm for darkblue. No links though
[17:48:22] Iron_Fist : looky good
[17:48:30] @ hmvh : Ah, I see pusha's active - see https://discogs.actieforum.com/steering-committee-f18/4-13-08-agenda-very-rouch-draft-of-document-in-progress-t190.htm#4359
[17:48:52] @ dmaxx : <a href="test">test link</a>
[17:49:16] quisquilia has joined the chat the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 17:49
[17:49:22] @ dmaxx : Where did you find that?
[17:49:28] @ dmaxx : Hi quisquilla
[17:49:40] @ dmaxx : Oh, it's new
[17:49:55] @ hmvh : For those that haven't seen it, I've responded to Storm as well here - https://discogs.actieforum.com/steering-committee-f18/my-resignation-from-the-steering-committee-t187.htm
[17:49:59] @ quisquilia : hi - this is a second session of the sc?
[17:50:16] Gizmex : According to Storm about "not only audio database"? What he was thinking about? Totally everything? Or only things connected to audio
[17:50:19] @ hmvh : Officially, yes, 2nd session.
[17:50:29] @ dmaxx : This is the second session indeed
[17:50:49] Iron_Fist : has anyone read my proposition in Storm's vission thread to make it possible for the submitter to tag his submission "Complete" ? Any good? http://www.discogs.com/release/429085 (see third post point #3)
[17:51:00] Iron_Fist : sorry wrong link https://discogs.actieforum.com/11-other-f15/visions-about-the-new-site-discographydb-t168-30.htm
[17:51:06] @ quisquilia : okay but perhaps all sc members should have been notified
[17:51:07] @ hmvh : Not sure if we can support EVERY collector or lamp post photos or philatelists.
[17:51:19] @ quisquilia : I'm just here by coincidence
[17:51:29] @ dmaxx : quisquilla: next time I'll send a newsletter
[17:51:38] @ quisquilia : thx
[17:51:42] @ dmaxx : To the entire SC
[17:52:08] Gizmex : theorteically U can put everything to Your draft
[17:52:08] @ quisquilia : ok, storm has left I see, though I'm ot sure why
[17:52:10] @ dmaxx : Gizmex: he was thinking about everything
[17:52:20] @ hmvh : I think it'd be best to finish what we started with and keep this to the point.
[17:52:20] @ dmaxx : Absolutely éverything
[17:52:47] @ dmaxx : To avoid the mistake we made yesterday: one discussion at a time plz
[17:52:47] Iron_Fist : @ quisquilia: partly because he's self-centered (no offense intended)
[17:52:59] Iron_Fist : I'm sure he knows it already
[17:53:11] @ hmvh : @Gizmex - of course, even a dildo... but do we catalogue sex toys?
[17:53:29] @ dmaxx : Not to my knowledge
[17:53:31] @ quisquilia : about pusha's new thread: you have agreed to automatically accept stuff initially?
[17:53:42] @ dmaxx : No
[17:53:52] @ quisquilia : or is it rather aoption for import (incl. checks)
[17:54:01] @ dmaxx : Where does it say that?
[17:54:05] @ dmaxx : It's controlled import
[17:54:24] @ hmvh : Yes and No. It's an INITIAL and controlled import.
[17:54:43] @ hmvh : A limited-time-offer only.
[17:54:49] @ dmaxx : Yes
[17:54:50] @ quisquilia : ok, thx, was horrified to (mis)read that
[17:54:57] @ dmaxx : And only for the most experienced
[17:55:21] @ dmaxx : Don't worry quisquilla, we care as much as you do
[17:55:25] @ hmvh : We'll have to decide who may and who may not import...
[17:55:35] @ dmaxx : True
[17:55:48] @ dmaxx : I'd say: SC at first stage
[17:55:59] @ dmaxx : Former editors at second
[17:56:06] @ quisquilia : most experienced = trusted ex-mods/ex-eds of Discogs?
[17:56:12] @ hmvh : SC and some beta testers maybe even!
[17:56:12] @ dmaxx : Not sure if we should / shouldn't stop there
[17:56:35] @ dmaxx : Not every mod please
[17:56:43] @ dmaxx : Many bad ones have been added at late

[17:56:44] @ hmvh : Selected few. But that's part of phase III of hmvh's grand plan Wink
[17:56:52] @ quisquilia : no, no, just "trusted" = selected ones
[17:56:53] @ dmaxx : Nice
[17:57:06] Iron_Fist : @ dmaxx`completely agreed
[17:57:34] Iron_Fist : how do we define "trusted"
[17:57:34] @ hmvh : @all: that's off-topic for now.
[17:57:45] @ dmaxx : Selected by the majority of SC
[17:58:05] @ quisquilia : ok
[17:58:33] @ dmaxx : Next subject?
[17:58:35] Iron_Fist : how do the SC even know who's a trustworthy submitter?
[17:59:09] @ dmaxx : Good point
[17:59:37] @ quisquilia : well, I guess, everyone of us has some experience with a couple of former mods / eds who have proven theirs skills
[18:00:02] Iron_Fist : there are some excellent submitters from Discogs, but I'm sure not much here would think about as they're not really present in the forums
[18:00:38] @ quisquilia : or don't you have a list about excellent users / mods?
[18:00:41] ultra_ambient has joined the chat the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 18:00
[18:00:57] Gizmex : About chosing the submitters for importing we can think when site will be already launched
[18:00:58] @ quisquilia : I have one such list
[18:01:10] @ quisquilia : ok, Gizmex
[18:01:24] @ dmaxx : Gizmex is right
[18:01:29] Iron_Fist : ok, perhaps the SC could take on a list of propositions from non-SC members, and could then take a look at their Discogs history and decide upon this list
[18:01:43] Iron_Fist : ok this can be decided later then
[18:01:51] @ quisquilia : @ hmvh, what is ON topic right now?
[18:01:55] @ hmvh : @Iron_Fist: Regardless of what, every "imported" item still needs to go through a manual check. We're simply trying to avoid people having to re-type or copy/paste everything.
[18:02:17] Gizmex : The process of choosing should be very quick, thats why not need to think about it now
[18:02:30] pusha has joined the chat the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 18:02
[18:02:39] @ hmvh : Hello pusha!
[18:02:42] @ pusha : need to get coffee
[18:02:45] @ pusha : brb
[18:02:48] @ pusha : Morning everyone !
[18:02:49] @ quisquilia : hi p
[18:02:49] @ hmvh : @all: current topic = https://discogs.actieforum.com/steering-committee-f18/4-13-08-agenda-very-rouch-draft-of-document-in-progress-t190.htm#4359
[18:02:56] @ hmvh : Please read.
[18:03:16] @ dmaxx : pusha, hi!
[18:03:19] Iron_Fist : @ hmvh : don't worry, I know all data still has to be double-checked
[18:03:28] @ hmvh : ...got my liter of coffee right here Smile
[18:03:31] Iron_Fist : yo pusha
[18:03:45] @ dmaxx : pusha, it's 18:00 here Smile
[18:03:55] Iron_Fist : I'll get to reading
[18:03:56] @ dmaxx : But still, good morning to you
[18:04:14] @ quisquilia : ok, have read that outline
[18:05:07] @ pusha : ok, showered, coffeed, and ready for actin Very Happy
[18:05:09] @ dmaxx : Someone volunteering to set the topics?
[18:05:19] @ dmaxx : pusha: great!
[18:05:52] @ pusha : we can continue where we left off yesterday
[18:05:55] Iron_Fist : about "Add: personel involved in the recording, production, or performance": how about "Video Direction" or "Artwork" credits, do we link them? Is it a too specific topic yet?
[18:06:17] @ pusha : we are on stage two
[18:06:20] little_alien will be mostly in lurking mode because of headache Neutral
[18:06:30] @ pusha : we define what sort of data, based on physical (and possibly digital) releases we want to capture
[18:07:24] @ pusha : alright while audio is a given
[18:07:31] Iron_Fist : ^^ we want to capture anything printed on the release, if the submitter wants to transcribe that
[18:07:36] @ pusha : what about "promotional" material ?
[18:07:46] @ pusha : Iron can you hold your comments please
[18:08:26] ultra_ambient : Sounds like you are discussing the details of submissions at the moment
[18:08:30] @ quisquilia : promo releases, sure, should be included
[18:08:46] ultra_ambient : Thsi may be a bit premature
[18:08:50] @ pusha : So when I say promotinoal, what about the bottle cap openers, t-shirts, undies
[18:09:22] @ quisquilia : oh, I see, you don't mean promo copies - my bad
[18:09:30] @ pusha : UA did you read the work we did yesterday
[18:09:33] @ hmvh : "where AUDIO is the main focus of the entity"...
[18:09:45] ultra_ambient : I think the SC should be discussing on things like forming goals and stages to getting the site up
[18:10:05] @ pusha : Easy UA this is what we are working on
[18:10:29] @ pusha : you werent here for 4 hours yesterday, you have to trust us that this is the starting point
[18:10:31] ultra_ambient : We should make a list on what things we need and in what order
[18:10:38] @ pusha : please Very Happy
[18:10:43] @ quisquilia : only promotional material which is of audio nature
[18:10:56] @ hmvh : ..."or of equal importance to any visual accompaniment, like in a music video or a live performance"
[18:10:59] @ dmaxx : Agreed with quisquilla
[18:11:00] ultra_ambient : I read the conversation from yesturday
[18:11:13] ultra_ambient : You were working on a mission statment
[18:11:29] @ dmaxx : This is currently the first step, u_a
[18:11:36] ultra_ambient : which sounded good
[18:11:50] @ hmvh : @ultra_ambient: without this discussion, anything else is moot, silly as it seems.
[18:11:53] Gizmex : Agreed with dmxx & quisquilla, lets start with audio only first
[18:12:05] Iron_Fist : @ hmvh: that means we should link "Artwork" credits and such? I'm fine with this
[18:12:25] ultra_ambient : ok, I will leave you to it. It's 2 am here and I'm working tomorrow so I need to go to bed
[18:12:30] @ dmaxx : Non-musical creds shouldn't be linked
[18:12:40] @ dmaxx : u_a good night
[18:12:51] @ pusha : night
[18:12:52] @ dmaxx : Back to allowed data
[18:12:57] @ hmvh : Sleep tight, and think of us Smile
[18:12:57] ultra_ambient : keep up the good work guys
[18:13:04] @ pusha : *nods*
[18:13:15] @ dmaxx : We will
[18:13:16] @ dmaxx : Cheers
[18:13:22] ultra_ambient : I'll read the convo if it gets posted in the forums again
[18:13:33] @ quisquilia : I don't mind artwork / photography / video director credits link, but it's not a must for me
[18:13:56] @ hmvh : @all: discogs had a sensible approach by allowing the linking (read: creating an artist page) providing that...
[18:13:56] @ dmaxx : ^ Too difficult
[18:14:08] @ dmaxx : Plus, I wouldn't like to mix artists and non-musical entries
[18:14:13] ultra_ambient is Disconnected on Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 18:14
[18:14:26] @ hmvh : ...that person had something to do with the audio/sound of the release.
[18:14:40] @ dmaxx : Yes
[18:15:06] @ hmvh : ...I liked that approach but there are some here that would like to link other (non-audio) entities like photographers and painters etc...
[18:15:20] @ dmaxx : Me not
[18:15:34] @ dmaxx : As this is would make things very complex
[18:15:49] @ hmvh : Now that might not be a bad idea entirely because (and watch this) I'd like to treat songwriters differently than performing or technical artists.
[18:15:49] @ quisquilia : I like it, but as I said - NOT a must for me
[18:16:08] Gizmex : about linking Artist credits: why not, there's lot of artist focused on making covers, they can be put together on one site. They can be ticked as Artist (Non Musical), or sth similar
[18:16:10] @ pusha : *listening*
[18:16:43] @ quisquilia : though I fail to see what's is complex about artist pages for artwork people, I guess we can use ANV feature etc. there, too
[18:16:57] @ hmvh : TWO THINGS to keep in mind: More linked artists = more data, making our site attractive to a wider range of people...
[18:17:02] @ dmaxx : The problem with, for example, Artwork creds, is how to trace the correct entries
[18:17:03] @ pusha : Gizmix - with all do respect can you hold your comments
[18:17:12] @ dmaxx : Often it's just a link, should we make links an entry?
[18:17:21] @ quisquilia : and for musicians, sound people, an extra index for "non-audio roles"
[18:17:27] @ hmvh : involved in the music business. Flipside: More data = more modding, more links and names to check.
[18:18:09] @ hmvh : OK, I've said my piece. Digest and respond.
[18:18:10] @ pusha : how about something to the effect of ........
[18:18:28] @ dmaxx : Maybe link when sure, unlink when not
[18:18:29] @ pusha : "in the future to expand to "non-audio roles"
[18:18:40] @ dmaxx : Comparable with "Written By" / "Written-By"
[18:18:46] @ pusha : thus far we have ........
[18:18:50] @ quisquilia : what about crediting companies?
[18:18:55] @ pusha : where AUDIO is the main focus of the entity". or of equal importance to any visual accompaniment, like in a music video or a live performance
[18:19:16] @ dmaxx : quisquilla: OK for me, but not as artists nor labels
[18:19:48] @ quisquilia : I'm talking strictly abut credits, dmaxx
[18:20:00] @ dmaxx : OK
[18:20:06] @ dmaxx : I'm pro
[18:20:14] @ dmaxx : pusha: sounds good
[18:20:15] @ hmvh : @quisquilia: That's the next dilemma. If we go wild with labels (which I fear we will have to), we're going to have Companies. Companies will...
[18:20:34] @ quisquilia : I haven't opened the can of worms yet which is label VS company (I'm in favour of such split)
[18:21:04] @ quisquilia : I'm talking about Artwork By - Creative Inc, NY and such
[18:21:11] @ dmaxx : Splitting labels and companies is one of the most desired things by many users
[18:21:14] @ pusha : what do we mean by crediting "companies" ?
[18:21:18] Iron_Fist : @ quisquilia: you mean like the credit "Recorded By - Columbia Records"?
[18:21:20] @ dmaxx : Distributors etc
[18:21:35] @ pusha : eek
[18:21:35] @ dmaxx : Distribution - ...
[18:21:43] @ hmvh : ...therefore have their own db entries (pages), like artists and WILL require (AN-)Variations. If we go for companies, we may as well expand into SOME non-audio involvees as well.
[18:21:43] little_alien has been disconnected the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 18:21 (session timeout)
[18:21:47] @ quisquilia : No, something like above artwork example
[18:21:55] @ pusha : sounds like a little to much
[18:21:57] @ dmaxx : discographydb.com/companies/--
[18:22:25] @ quisquilia : or Engineer - Creative Sound Labs, plc
[18:22:33] Iron_Fist : @ quisuilia: I think my above example should be considered, as I've already seen it on a record
[18:22:43] @ hmvh : @quisquilia:label VS company (I'm in favour of such split) --- you and me both!
[18:22:57] @ dmaxx : [credrole] - [name] [] artist [] company
[18:23:00] @ dmaxx : ?
[18:23:18] @ dmaxx : I'm in favor of split too
[18:23:21] @ quisquilia : @I_F, yes, I just wanted to illustrate common credits on releases which credit companies, not persons
[18:23:26] Iron_Fist : this is going to loo very complez on the sub form
[18:23:29] @ hmvh : Guys: It's not too much. Submitter reads what he sees on his record and types it in.
[18:23:32] Iron_Fist : *look
[18:23:33] @ pusha : damm you guys are nuts and I am no one to stop you - so I am on board
[18:23:37] little_alien has joined the chat the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 18:23
[18:23:55] @ quisquilia : hi, l_a
[18:23:58] @ dmaxx : pusha: what's your objection?
[18:24:01] @ dmaxx : to this
[18:24:07] @ hmvh : It's the future mods that'll have their work cut out, and it might be good to have mods concentrating on certain items only (spreading the load).
[18:24:09] @ dmaxx : l_a, wb
[18:24:14] @ pusha : it seems like just "too much
[18:24:20] @ pusha : but .................
[18:24:26] @ pusha : thats me
[18:24:34] @ pusha : you guys have a better feel for it
[18:24:50] @ pusha : and ....... I dont see why at this stage we cant include it on what we have thus far
[18:24:54] @ dmaxx : I don't know, I think it's not that much more than we had in Discogs
[18:25:13] @ pusha : ok I do have this question ....
[18:25:16] @ quisquilia : I dunno, credits madness on classical or jazz releases is worse than an artwork company credit here and there
[18:25:20] @ dmaxx : Companies are easy to split from artists
[18:25:32] @ pusha : what value does archiving such info actaully have
[18:25:33] @ little_alien : to catch up, are we discussing crediting companies now?
[18:25:37] @ hmvh : @dmaxx: No, it's not MUCH more than ogs. It's what we'll do with it that'll set us apart.
[18:25:46] @ dmaxx : l_a: yes
[18:25:53] @ pusha : *nods* @ LA
[18:25:59] @ dmaxx : hmvh; Agreed
[18:26:02] @ hmvh : @pusha: History, sir... history.
[18:26:07] Iron_Fist : OFF-TOPIC QUESTION: has azzuro been contacted?
[18:26:09] @ little_alien : I'm with pusha then...
[18:26:14] @ pusha : fair enough
[18:26:26] @ little_alien : not against it, but what use does it have
[18:26:27] @ dmaxx : Stormbringer is officially still on board
[18:26:31] @ pusha : and H what do you mean "what we will do with it"
[18:26:35] @ dmaxx : For a few days to turn his mind
[18:26:44] @ pusha : sounds like you have a card up your sleeve
[18:26:55] @ pusha : that is good to hear D
[18:27:30] Iron_Fist : @ dmaxx: he said he wouldn't come back, and I trust him he won't. ANyway, fair enough
[18:27:32] @ hmvh : Re: History: You add a rekkid. That's info. For you it's shelf space in a collection. For another user it's memories, for another it's something else.
[18:28:26] @ hmvh : "what we will do with it"? Presentation. The trick is to correlate everything and tie it all together. Ogs had a label/artist/release chain, nothing more.
[18:28:26] @ quisquilia : use = some of us (like me) like to know who is responsible for the artwork of all Kristin Hersh releases and what else she did
[18:28:42] @ quisquilia : another one doesn't care
[18:28:49] @ dmaxx : Fair
[18:28:50] @ pusha : K I am getting it now
[18:29:35] @ quisquilia : hence the later one makes no use of that info, but the DB needs to provide such infor for someone to make (good) use of it
[18:29:37] @ pusha : ok lets review ....
[18:29:56] @ dmaxx : What will our chain be? label / artist / release / company .... right?
[18:30:00] @ hmvh : If you don;t care, don't click the link. Each rekkid has ACRES of information but sorry... that's the archivist in me talking now.
[18:30:05] @ pusha : we have "where AUDIO is the main focus of the entity". or of equal importance to any visual accompaniment, like in a music video or a live performance", "
[18:30:37] @ pusha : to that I would like to see added "promotional materials
[18:30:44] @ dmaxx : ... where _recorded_ audio ...
[18:30:47] @ pusha : of most any nature to support such audio releases are also allowed.
[18:30:51] @ dmaxx : + promo indeed
[18:30:59] @ pusha : then we have ....
[18:31:02] @ pusha : \"In addition, we aim to create a sub archieve of supporting companies involved in such releases."
[18:31:10] @ pusha : wording is crap - but those are thoughts
[18:31:12] @ hmvh : company/label/release/artist/track/writer... off the top of my orb.
[18:31:14] @ dmaxx : good
[18:31:18] Gizmex has been disconnected the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 18:31 (session timeout)
[18:31:39] Gizmex has joined the chat the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 18:31
[18:31:54] @ pusha : Giz - at this point do you have a comment ?
[18:31:56] @ dmaxx : hmvh: difference between artist and writer?
[18:32:02] @ pusha : I know you have been patient
[18:32:03] @ hmvh : Guys, I'm gonna have to be rude, I've only a few minutes left.
[18:32:05] @ dmaxx : imo writer = artist
[18:32:31] @ dmaxx : :-/

[18:32:45] Iron_Fist : ^^as above
[18:33:45] @ dmaxx : I think the wording is fine
[18:34:06] @ pusha : H before you go - you like what we have ?
[18:34:12] @ pusha : I same question ?
[18:34:12] @ hmvh : @dmaxx: essentially the same as far as the db is concerned (both will have an "artist" page, maybe even the same profile) but we need them to split off songs into separate entities. That's MY big scheme, I hope I'm not being a "
[18:34:17] @ pusha : Gizmex Same quetsion
[18:34:19] @ hmvh : brb
[18:34:29] @ hmvh : ...not being a "teo".
[18:34:40] @ pusha : lol
[18:34:56] Gizmex : reading, I was offline for a moment
[18:35:06] @ pusha : no worres Very Happy
[18:35:09] Gizmex : I'm not sure about promotion material
[18:35:30] @ hmvh : A promo CD is promo material Smile
[18:35:39] @ quisquilia : "split off songs into separate entities" - what does that mean? track IDs & stuff?
[18:35:39] @ pusha : @ SC - in H's original post he had "What information do we want to exract taht makes it interesting to the casual visitor and the dedicated user"
[18:35:47] @ dmaxx : but: audio = promo
[18:35:47] @ pusha : it seems like we covered that, no ?
[18:35:53] @ dmaxx : That's basically the same
[18:36:01] @ dmaxx : No need to define promo
[18:36:02] Gizmex : Ah OK U mean about Audio prmotional material, then OK
[18:36:04] @ pusha : k
[18:36:19] @ pusha : well I was talking "cups, and trinkets"
[18:36:31] @ pusha : seems like someone always wants to add that stuff
[18:36:41] @ dmaxx : I'd say no to anything without audio on it
[18:36:43] @ pusha : personaly I dont care, just making mention of it
[18:36:58] @ pusha : oh oh oh
[18:36:58] @ quisquilia : agree with dmaxx
[18:36:59] @ dmaxx : Otherwise we might as well start with DVDs and books...
[18:36:59] @ hmvh : No posters or T-shirts Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
[18:37:16] @ pusha : we could make that part of a "user customizing his profile"
[18:37:21] @ pusha : kind of part of the notes deal
[18:37:27] @ quisquilia : audio books - belong into DB
[18:37:30] @ hmvh : ...and if it's books on muzak then you may as well add cooking books, exactly.
[18:37:52] @ dmaxx : audiobooks yes, no physical ones
[18:38:02] @ pusha : ok so scratch non-audio for this conversaiton then
[18:38:06] @ quisquilia : okay
[18:38:15] @ hmvh : http://www.discogs.com/release/997480
[18:38:18] Kevlar has joined the chat the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 18:38
[18:39:01] @ pusha : yeah - not my bag H but ok
[18:39:17] Iron_Fist : sorry to interrupt. I'm not SC member, but are we even thinking of the possibility to link Studios? TO BE DISCUSSED LATER PERHAPS, WHEN ON TOPIC.
[18:39:22] Iron_Fist : ok I'll shut up now
[18:39:27] @ dmaxx : 997480 : Y
[18:39:42] @ dmaxx : Studios... good question
[18:39:46] @ dmaxx : I'd say Y
[18:39:53] @ dmaxx : As they can easely be defined
[18:39:56] @ pusha : Studios is companies, yeah ?
[18:39:58] @ quisquilia : studios included in companies
[18:40:02] @ pusha : that is what I was thinking
[18:40:10] @ dmaxx : Good
[18:40:11] @ pusha : maybe a more specific field though
[18:40:13] @ dmaxx : Problem solved Smile
[18:40:28] @ quisquilia : yay!
[18:40:28] @ pusha : we like ?
[18:40:30] @ dmaxx : Or add (Studio) behind entryname
[18:40:32] @ hmvh : Studios = companies, can do, can work into.
[18:40:38] Kevlar test
[18:40:49] @ pusha : coolies
[18:41:03] @ dmaxx : Good
[18:41:04] @ hmvh : Certainly studios for track-specific free-text Smile (sorry, hmvh thinks major makulu BIG)
[18:41:22] @ pusha : ok next on the doc - looks to be a type of FAQ section
[18:41:33] little_alien has been disconnected the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 18:41 (session timeout)
[18:41:43] @ quisquilia : dislike (Studio) behind enty name - don't change info
[18:42:00] @ pusha : disagree with H, based on our above conversation
[18:42:03] @ pusha : re: history
[18:42:18] @ pusha : to me a studio is more key then any photography or cover artist
[18:42:25] @ quisquilia : mucking up = later correcting
[18:42:47] @ dmaxx : So treat it seperate? artists / companies / ... / studio
[18:43:00] @ quisquilia : yeah, push, that's YOUR preference / priority, others feel different
[18:43:14] @ hmvh : OK ladies, I need to shoot. I'll leave with these words:
[18:43:23] @ pusha : I would say I have no priorities
[18:43:25] @ pusha : :d
[18:43:31] @ dmaxx : :scratch:processing info
[18:43:35] @ quisquilia : therefore DB should provide ALL info ad everyone chooses what he / she is interested in
[18:43:37] @ pusha : tc H
[18:43:43] @ pusha : always a pleasure
[18:43:59] Iron_Fist : @ dmaxx: though I'm not taking part of the decisions, I think Studio should be separate
[18:44:10] @ pusha : *thinking on D's commment"
[18:44:11] @ quisquilia : @hmvh: Adele, Bub!
[18:44:12] Gizmex : Or add (Studio) behind entryname - good idea dmaxx, I'm for it
[18:44:14] @ hmvh : We want as much information as the average submitter is able to provide with ease. Some may be interested in studios, others not. If some are interested, it would be...
[18:44:45] @ hmvh : irresponsible not to provide the facility to capture that data...
[18:44:55] @ pusha : so freetext wiht a drop down ?
[18:45:08] @ pusha : @ with H on the concept
[18:45:13] @ pusha : agree ****
[18:45:19] @ dmaxx : I agree with hmvh
[18:45:35] @ dmaxx : AMIAP
[18:45:43] @ dmaxx : As Much Info As Possible
[18:45:55] @ pusha : lmao
[18:46:03] @ pusha : you completetionist I swear
[18:46:18] @ hmvh : ...after all, some of this is not mandatory (another topic), the initial submitter couldn't care less. The next owner might be interested and would like to capture this information...
[18:46:18] @ pusha : Very Happy
[18:46:19] @ quisquilia : I like
[18:46:25] Masakari has joined the chat the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 18:46
[18:46:32] @ hmvh : not completisr, just perfectionist. Music lover.
[18:46:42] @ pusha : ok I added the above to the "running" notes
[18:46:53] @ dmaxx : pusha, thx
[18:46:55] @ pusha : its all good
[18:46:57] Iron_Fist : Hello Masakari!
[18:47:02] @ hmvh : Right, I'm gone. Enjoy.
[18:47:05] hmvh is Disconnected on Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 18:47
[18:47:56] @ pusha : damm the next section of stuff is quite technical, with some FAQ user issues
[18:47:56] @ quisquilia : so what's next - I have about 10 minutes still
[18:48:26] @ pusha : maybe we should wrap and we can all digues the next portion of the draft
[18:48:33] @ pusha : disguest****
[18:49:08] @ dmaxx : "What is a label exactly? Where will I find this on my release? ...." ???
[18:49:11] @ dmaxx : That part?
[18:49:15] @ pusha : digest even
[18:49:22] @ dmaxx : Very technical
[18:49:25] @ pusha : correct D
[18:49:32] @ dmaxx : ouch
[18:49:36] @ pusha : well that is FAQ user stuff
[18:49:58] @ pusha : its whats after that "display, hyperlinking"
[18:50:04] @ dmaxx : the definition of label can be searched on wikipedia
[18:50:26] @ quisquilia : JMO: label = branding (TMed) / company = usually given in small print w/ address
[18:51:18] Iron_Fist : label often has an associated logo on spine, but not always.
[18:51:33] @ quisquilia : We probably need Name Variations options for both
[18:51:34] Iron_Fist : *spine or back cover, etc.
[18:51:38] @ dmaxx : lunchtime, bbl
[18:51:52] @ dmaxx : will be back asap
[18:51:59] @ pusha : k
[18:52:04] @ quisquilia : @I_F: logo = branding = label
[18:52:13] @ pusha : I agree with NV on lables
[18:52:17] dmaxx is away : lunch
[18:52:31] @ quisquilia : but label /= company
[18:52:38] Iron_Fist : See you kater guys, I have to get back to work
[18:52:44] Iron_Fist : good luck with all this
[18:52:57] Iron_Fist : *later
[18:52:58] @ quisquilia : thx, bye
[18:53:05] @ pusha : eh - not in the same way we difined "company"
[18:53:06] @ pusha : above
[18:53:11] @ pusha : take care IF
[18:53:27] @ quisquilia : right: we have company credits
[18:53:55] @ quisquilia : AND then we have the company AND label fields for releases
[18:54:28] @ pusha : nods
[18:54:34] @ pusha : correct both
[18:54:42] @ pusha : am I understanding you correctly ?
[18:55:34] @ pusha : actually that would be 3 fields
[18:55:46] Kevlar has been disconnected the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 18:55 (session timeout)
[18:55:55] @ quisquilia : I' looking on Discogs for an example to illustrate... gmme a second
[18:56:00] @ pusha : kk
[18:56:22] @ pusha : my apologies for not being completely up to speed on some stuff
[18:57:26] @ quisquilia : http://www.discogs.com/release/1163121
[18:57:49] @ quisquilia : There's a company credit: Other [Editing...]
[18:58:21] @ quisquilia : There is a label: The RPO logo on the cover
[18:58:24] Masakari : Better late than never: Hello @all! Hi Iron_Fist! (I'll shut up now :-)
[18:58:55] @ quisquilia : And there are several companies involved:
[18:59:09] @ quisquilia : TIM as distributor
[18:59:34] @ quisquilia : Centurion in the (p) line
[18:59:39] @ pusha : k I follow you
[18:59:41] @ quisquilia : etc.
[18:59:59] @ quisquilia : Hence we make use of "companies" in two ways
[19:00:36] @ pusha : I dont see centruion
[19:00:41] @ pusha : help
[19:00:42] @ pusha : lol
[19:00:50] @ quisquilia : 1) In credits sometimes companies are credited - we list them & link them -> I call those now "credited companies"
[19:01:24] dmaxx has been disconnected the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 19:01 (session timeout)
[19:01:37] @ quisquilia : 2) We also want to shw in the DB the company/ies responsible for the release -> "releasing companies"
[19:02:09] @ quisquilia : Centurion: back cover, second image, below barcode
[19:02:16] @ pusha : check me to see if I follow - creditd companies = more of a catch all ?
[19:03:05] @ quisquilia : not sure I understand
[19:03:44] @ pusha : ummmm ......... credit companies = any supporting companies in the production of the release
[19:03:58] @ pusha : as oppossed to "releasing companies"
[19:04:00] @ quisquilia : Point about "credited companies" is that we want to gather As Much Ifo As Possible about release, i.e. all credits
[19:04:13] dmaxx has joined the chat the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 19:04
[19:04:21] @ pusha : k I am with you
[19:04:31] @ quisquilia : Yes, I think we mean the same.
[19:04:54] @ pusha : and to get back to centerioun ...... they = manufactor
[19:05:01] @ dmaxx : back...
[19:05:11] @ pusha : wb D
[19:05:15] @ quisquilia : My terms are a bit clumsy... should just illustrate the difference, sorry.
[19:05:38] @ pusha : nope your ok, I appreciate you spending hte time to educate me
[19:06:49] Masakari : "Music Company" vs "Production Studio"? (I mean the terms...)
[19:08:13] Iron_Fist has been disconnected the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 19:08 (session timeout)
[19:08:58] @ quisquilia : Well, no, the credited companies are not necessarily studios. They could be Nifty Design Inc or StarsPhotograph.Com etc. It's two different instances of companies appearing on releases.
[19:09:30] @ quisquilia : 1) Those credited in the credits section, possibly linked in our DB.
[19:09:33] @ pusha : *editing the draft document*
[19:10:04] @ quisquilia : 2) Those real world business counterparts of the respective label.
[19:10:36] @ dmaxx : Agreed on everything
[19:10:40] @ quisquilia : p - we are left all alone... *pout*
[19:10:52] @ quisquilia : oh, hi d
[19:11:02] @ dmaxx : heya q
[19:12:04] Gizmex has been disconnected the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 19:12 (session timeout)
[19:12:17] @ quisquilia : ok, everything agreed on for the drafts now?
[19:12:37] @ quisquilia : need to go in ... 5 min latest
[19:12:56] Gizmex has joined the chat the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 19:12
[19:12:57] @ dmaxx : :-/
[19:13:03] @ pusha : yeah I will edit up my post
[19:13:13] @ pusha : D do you have the "raw" chat cut and pasted
[19:13:38] @ dmaxx : Got it all
[19:14:34] @ pusha : nice
[19:14:48] @ pusha : well we had another productive session
[19:14:53] @ quisquilia : Cool. Will try to log in later (around 9pm hereabouts... = in 2 hrs)
[19:14:53] @ pusha : I am proud of us
[19:15:00] @ pusha : tangible progress
[19:15:11] @ quisquilia : :-D
[19:15:17] @ dmaxx : I will check each hour
[19:15:25] @ dmaxx : Yeah, we're great
[19:15:27] Kevlar has joined the chat the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 19:15
[19:15:28] @ quisquilia : bye
[19:15:47] @ dmaxx : quisquilla, bye
[19:15:51] quisquilia is Disconnected on Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 19:15
[19:15:54] @ pusha : take care Q
[19:18:46] @ pusha : d let me run this past you
[19:19:06] @ pusha : it is the cleaned up results of what we discussed
[19:19:28] @ dmaxx : yes
[19:19:33] @ pusha : Where Audio is the main focus of the release entity or of equal importance to
[19:19:50] @ pusha : any visual accompaniment; ie: music video of live performance
[19:20:05] @ pusha : Further, promotional materials to support such releases are also welcome.
[19:20:22] @ pusha : Given, they too are am audio entity in nature.
[19:20:34] @ pusha : In addition, we aim to create a” sub” archive of various supporting companies that too
[19:20:42] @ pusha : are involved in such audio releases; ie: studios, manufacturers, cover art and its
[19:20:50] @ pusha : individual artist ect
[19:20:59] @ pusha : We believe it our responsibility to allow a user to capture as much data and detail per
[19:21:08] @ pusha : release as users choose to include.
[19:21:25] @ dmaxx : great
[19:21:43] @ dmaxx : Will you edit the topic on the forum?
[19:21:51] @ pusha : cool
[19:21:52] Masakari has been disconnected the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 19:21 (session timeout)
[19:21:56] @ pusha : yes
[19:22:42] @ pusha : damm sounds pretty good don't it
[19:22:55] @ pusha : that is team work
[19:22:58] @ dmaxx : I like it too
[19:23:09] @ pusha : all I can say is ..............
[19:23:11] @ pusha : phewwwwww
[19:23:20] @ pusha : I was really getting worried yesterday
[19:24:53] @ dmaxx : I wasn't really, but if it would have taken longer without result
[19:24:59] @ dmaxx : then me too
[19:25:44] @ dmaxx : We have something decent going on here
[19:28:04] Gizmex has been disconnected the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 19:28 (session timeout)
[19:28:18] @ pusha : nods
[19:28:24] Gizmex has joined the chat the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 19:28
[19:30:00] @ dmaxx : I will stay online, and check regulary if other SC members come online
[19:30:05] @ dmaxx : With two we can't do much
[19:31:33] Kevlar has been disconnected the Sun 13 Apr 2008 - 19:31 (session timeout)
[19:33:06] Gizmex : According to labels, companies, distributors. If we're going to add the linked
[19:33:55] Gizmex : We should write definition of each one to avoid mistakes "what is what" made by amateur users, beginners
[19:34:16] Gizmex : often on the releases there's not clear what is what
[19:34:35] @ dmaxx : We will work on that, yes
[19:34:40] Gizmex : only logos, few letters
[19:36:26] @ dmaxx : Yep
[19:36:30] Gizmex : thnx dmaxx, maybe I'm wrong, but I think it's important
[19:40:59] @ dmaxx : It is important, clear definitions are needed from the start to avoid problems later on.
[19:42:13] Gizmex : clear definitions with examples even