[18:17:00] @ ultra_ambient : 19
[18:18:52] @ ultra_ambient : 20
[18:24:19] @ ultra_ambient : 21
[18:28:02] little_alien has joined the chat the Sat May 31, 2008 6:28 pm
[18:28:21] @ ultra_ambient : hello
[18:28:37] @ little_alien : hi
[18:29:05] @ ultra_ambient : What's up?
[18:29:05] little_alien has no idea what to talk about though...
[18:29:33] @ little_alien : not much, backed up some music today and played a record after a vinyl-less period
[18:29:50] @ ultra_ambient : You're in the tech group right?
[18:29:59] @ little_alien : yes
[18:30:16] @ ultra_ambient : What can you do?
[18:31:51] @ little_alien : a lot of things.. just a lack of motivation and time...
[18:31:54] deejsasqui has joined the chat the Sat May 31, 2008 6:31 pm
[18:32:10] @ ultra_ambient : ok
[18:32:16] @ ultra_ambient : That is a shame
[18:32:16] @ deejsasqui : hallo
[18:32:23] @ little_alien : hi
[18:32:23] @ ultra_ambient : Hey Deej
[18:32:24] @ deejsasqui : ultra - were you counting the minutes?
[18:32:44] @ ultra_ambient : nah, was only trying to keep from getting boooted
[18:33:19] @ deejsasqui : aha
[18:33:36] @ ultra_ambient : So.... What's on the agenda?
[18:33:55] @ little_alien : ehhh
[18:34:47] @ ultra_ambient : What needs sorting out?
[18:34:58] @ deejsasqui : how will we get the site coded?
[18:35:14] @ deejsasqui : if we have internal coders, we can discuss the system requirements informally
[18:35:15] @ little_alien : ^^ that for one
[18:35:40] @ deejsasqui : but if we want to get outside help, we need to refine our requirements
[18:35:47] @ ultra_ambient : At the moment our priority is to get someone who know SQL
[18:36:06] @ ultra_ambient : I can build web pages
[18:36:35] @ ultra_ambient : I could probably learn MySQL as well but we don't want a 1 coder web site
[18:37:29] @ deejsasqui : very true
[18:38:20] @ little_alien : I'll probably have the time to review code, but not to write it myself
[18:38:47] @ ultra_ambient : Perhaps we should start hitting some other forums looking for keen technical people who are looking for something to do
[18:39:13] @ deejsasqui : but if someone took the lead, there are a number of people who said they are skilled, but either can't do enough work or are simply daunted by the thought of creating the site themselves
[18:40:02] @ ultra_ambient : What do you mean by taking the lead?
[18:41:00] @ deejsasqui : Someone who would either be the project leader, or simply someone who would start putting their code up for testing and review
[18:41:27] @ ultra_ambient : I was going ot get started on some prototype pages soon
[18:41:45] @ little_alien : cool
[18:42:47] @ ultra_ambient : Hopefully I can get something up even if it is simple and get suggestions from people in the forum
[18:43:28] @ little_alien : the 5 people still active...
[18:43:57] @ little_alien : the nearing summer doesn't help much either
[18:44:07] @ ultra_ambient : yeah, but remember a couple of guys are away
[18:44:07] @ deejsasqui : yes, very keen - there are plenty who log on and read, but posting is down a lot
[18:44:14] @ little_alien : people will be even less active I guess
[18:44:30] @ deejsasqui : or have even more free time?
[18:44:47] @ little_alien : that's a plus side
[18:44:47] @ ultra_ambient : I don't think we actually need that many people. We just need people who can code and organise things
[18:45:11] @ deejsasqui : Yeah - we have a lot of ideas to work with
[18:46:24] @ ultra_ambient : I think we need a scout to go to other forums and find some keen coders
[18:46:40] @ ultra_ambient : Try and attract them to this project
[18:47:06] @ deejsasqui : Do you have any forums in mind?
[18:47:21] @ little_alien : keen coders that know something about data structures, otherwise we'll end up with a discogs clone
[18:47:32] @ deejsasqui : yeah
[18:47:51] @ deejsasqui : Pauli posted a link to an opensource database thing he uses to some extent >> https://discogs.actieforum.com/5-technical-database-format-and-structure-f9/xataface-t272.htm
[18:48:06] @ little_alien : perhaps try coder forums like phpfreaks (I'm not a member there, just a guess)
[18:48:07] @ deejsasqui : it's (now) called Xataface >> http://framework.weblite.ca/
[18:48:17] @ ultra_ambient : none in particular but it shouldn't be difficult to find a tech related community on the net
[18:48:36] @ little_alien : haven't checked out the link, but it's probably just another php/mysql framework
[18:48:47] @ little_alien : all have their pro's and con's
[18:49:02] @ deejsasqui : ah - gotcha
[18:49:16] @ ultra_ambient : We should try and target people who know SQL as that is where our shortfall is right now
[18:49:23] @ little_alien : my colleage is using Zend Framework for a big project now
[18:49:28] @ deejsasqui : Have either of you used freshmeat? I was wondering if people browse projects to look for things to do?
[18:49:32] @ little_alien : it's the framework from the makers of php
[18:49:53] @ ultra_ambient : never heard of it
[18:49:56] @ little_alien : what's freshmeat?
[18:50:34] @ deejsasqui : it's an opensource project hosting site
[18:50:52] @ little_alien : like sourceforge?
[18:51:13] @ deejsasqui : hah - that's the one I'm thinking of ..
[18:51:48] @ deejsasqui : Freshmeat.net seems to be an index instead of a repository for projects
[18:52:12] @ little_alien : ah
[18:54:11] @ ultra_ambient : How long are you guys going ot stay on? It's getting pretty late here.
[18:54:25] @ deejsasqui : Have either of you used Sourceforge?
[18:54:42] @ deejsasqui : I'm multi-tasking here, and it's only 10am in California
[18:55:02] @ ultra_ambient : nope
[18:55:04] @ little_alien : never used it, only downloaded software from it
[18:55:19] @ ultra_ambient : It's 3am here. I'll need to go ot bed soon
[18:55:25] @ deejsasqui : ultra - do you have time to check around for forums of PHP folks?
[18:55:31] @ little_alien : 7pm here
[18:55:56] little_alien still have to find something to eat for dinner
[18:55:59] @ ultra_ambient : You are lucky you're in the right time zone Little Alien
[18:56:25] @ little_alien : right? I'd rather flip to 10 am then i'd still have a full day
[18:56:27] @ deejsasqui : Before I forget - there are 3 other people who have some form of music database they've created who are currently part of DDB
[18:57:12] @ deejsasqui : didn't redi have something posted and reviewed? I thought there was a thread or two where his project was discussed
[18:57:14] @ ultra_ambient : Should we try and merge?
[18:58:01] @ ultra_ambient : It has been suggested before that we join other sites but was unaminously rejected
[18:58:41] @ deejsasqui : oh - merge with other sites? yeah - none seem to have the same (lofty) goals we do
[18:58:49] @ deejsasqui : and they all have their own "baggage" to deal with
[18:59:22] @ deejsasqui : much like Discogs will always be cleaning up v1 and v2 subs, MusicBrainz will always be sorting out their original submissions
[18:59:28] @ deejsasqui : and RYM is just messy, in my eyes.
[19:00:20] @ little_alien : I don't even understand musicbrainz
[19:00:24] @ ultra_ambient : It would be difficult to impose our goals and needs on another site
[19:00:59] @ deejsasqui : If we can, creating something from the ground up, with our knowledge of what worked and what went wrong with Discogs and other sites (we have a few MB users, and some have moved to RYM, too) we could create something fantastic
[19:01:28] @ deejsasqui : I was thinking we could talk with MB folk, as they actually have an IRC forum where the founders chat from time to time
[19:01:33] @ deejsasqui : it's a very open community
[19:01:41] @ little_alien : what are TRM and PUID???
[19:02:00] @ deejsasqui : If there were any project we would get behind, I think MB would be the one
[19:02:05] @ deejsasqui : where do you see TRM and PUID?
[19:02:25] @ little_alien : oh musicbrainz terms I never understood
[19:02:39] @ little_alien : I find their interface confusing
[19:03:12] @ ultra_ambient : I wonder if we could convince the MB creator to join us and start from scratch again?
[19:03:32] @ deejsasqui : or maybe fork their project?
[19:03:35] @ little_alien : http://musicbrainz.org/artist/8970d868-0723-483b-a75b-51088913d3d4.html
[19:03:56] @ little_alien : (example)
[19:04:17] @ deejsasqui : little alien - no idea
[19:04:23] @ ultra_ambient : I thought that idea was already rejected
[19:04:32] @ deejsasqui : MB is cluttered and not easy to "read"
[19:04:46] @ little_alien : indeed
[19:05:05] @ deejsasqui : I don't think the MB folk will scratch what they have and start again, but if we could work with their code, we could get a leg up.
[19:06:15] @ ultra_ambient : hmm. Tricky
[19:06:53] @ deejsasqui : TRM = TRM Recognizes Music >> http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/TRM
[19:07:13] @ little_alien : but they do list barcodes, that's at least something
[19:07:26] @ deejsasqui : PUID = Portable Unique IDentifiers >> http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/PUID
[19:07:33] @ ultra_ambient : What are barcodes good for?
[19:07:40] @ deejsasqui : but they also have old data that needs updating
[19:07:46] @ little_alien : ooh never saw their wiki, thanks
[19:07:49] @ deejsasqui : barcodes should be unique points of reference
[19:08:10] @ little_alien : barcodes help identify unique releases, i guess they mean the EAN on the release
[19:08:20] @ deejsasqui : their wiki is the backbone of their documentation, and it's integrated into their site very well, but it's a bit annoying to get to just the wiki
[19:10:30] @ deejsasqui : they're working towards some Discogs elements, and they're way more relaxed about verification.
[19:10:48] @ deejsasqui : if no one reviews a submission or edit within 14 days, it's automatically accepted.
[19:11:27] @ deejsasqui : but there are lots of editors, and I think there are a few levels of editors - the really trustworthy people are "autoeditors" and their submissions mostly go live instantly.
[19:11:39] @ little_alien : MB is still too track oriented for my taste...
[19:11:50] @ deejsasqui : I think I'll review their site and give a better run-down in the next few days, or ask mudcrow to do that for us
[19:12:23] @ deejsasqui : and it's very focused on CDs, as it did start out as an alternative to CDDB, when CDDB went more closed
[19:12:26] @ ultra_ambient : I think they just need someone to redesign their web pages. They are terrible to read!
[19:13:13] @ little_alien : MB would fail just as hard or harder than discogs it it got the same number of clueless visitors
[19:21:57] @ little_alien :
[19:22:03] @ deejsasqui : Do you want to meet tomorrow?