SC chatsession 10: 2008-07-05

Times are CET+1

[15:53:53] @ corne_mo : hi UA
[15:56:57] ultra_ambient : Hello
[15:57:06] ultra_ambient : How's it going?
[15:57:11] @ corne_mo : it's silent in the chat.
[15:57:24] @ corne_mo : most probably just like last week that most appear around 17:00 CET
[15:57:48] @ corne_mo : all OK here. Just had a short night sleep. Studied schneckls db proposal
[15:59:01] ultra_ambient : yeah, there is a lot of reading to do there
[15:59:09] ultra_ambient : He's been hard at work
[15:59:43] @ corne_mo : yep, and considering that's only just a part of the total DB we need.
[16:00:34] @ corne_mo : I've done some page-layout myself. At hold atm cause I want to have some more feedback before I try to come up with numorous pages and have to re-do all afterwards
[16:01:09] ultra_ambient : yeah, things at work have beeen way to busy for me
[16:01:32] ultra_ambient : Next two weeks I'm not going to have much time
[16:01:37] ultra_ambient : but after that I'm hoping things at work will return to normal
[16:03:13] @ corne_mo : I'm quite busy at work too. Just had some inspiration in the weekend and came with this initial design, based on the discography.info layout
[16:03:34] @ corne_mo : Just hoping some people will regain trust in this project when they see something happening
[16:04:01] ultra_ambient : Yeah, I did that. I intended on improving it a bit
[16:05:02] @ corne_mo : It's currently a little mess too, with iframes that shouldn't be iframes and such, but as it's all hand-typed html I wanted to spare me some work :-)
[16:07:22] @ corne_mo : unfortunately I can't attend the chat this afternoon. I'm of to the train station now to pick up some friends I have over for dinner this evening
[16:07:42] @ corne_mo : So I hope some good will come out (again) and will read the transcripts afterwards
[16:07:44] ultra_ambient : ok then
[16:08:02] ultra_ambient : Hope you have a great night
[16:08:16] @ corne_mo : btw: can you take care for the transcripts as long as dmaxx is not around (if anything useful is said of course)
[16:08:32] @ corne_mo : See u later
[16:08:38] ultra_ambient : yep, will do
[16:12:25] ultra_ambient : Hello Little Alien
[16:12:34] little_alien : hi
[16:12:53] ultra_ambient : Welcome to chat
[16:14:16] little_alien : corne has made an interface for the db?
[16:15:43] ultra_ambient : no, he has done some basic web page layouts
[16:16:10] ultra_ambient : nothing functional yet
[16:17:12] little_alien : ah
[16:17:20] ultra_ambient : Hopefully I'll be working on that in a couple of weeks time
[16:22:23] ultra_ambient : Is there anything else you would like to bring up?
[16:22:41] little_alien : ehhh
[16:22:52] little_alien : bit uninspired I'm afraid...
[16:23:52] ultra_ambient : ok then
[16:24:19] ultra_ambient : Looks like some people are finally producing something which is encouraging
[16:39:42] Schneckl : hello
[16:40:19] ultra_ambient : Hello Schnekl
[16:40:39] ultra_ambient : How are you tonight?
[16:42:46] Schneckl : fine Smile it's afternoon here
[16:44:20] ultra_ambient : You are lucky, it's almost 1am here
[16:49:58] Schneckl : I visited the forum at 3am last night
[16:52:22] Schneckl : I guess the "very last" sc chat will happen tomorrow?
[16:53:46] ultra_ambient : Yeah, some will turn up tomorrow
[16:53:58] ultra_ambient : Not sure if there'll be many here tonight
[16:56:13] Schneckl : I'll wait and see what happens. I might not be responsive all the time because i'm busy.
[16:57:10] ultra_ambient : Hello dmaxx
[16:57:37] @ dmaxx : Hello everyone
[16:58:12] @ dmaxx : Seems like the session hasn't really started yet.
[16:58:31] ultra_ambient : No, not much has happened so far
[16:58:35] Schneckl : hello dmaxx
[16:59:44] @ dmaxx : I'm catching up with what's been said already
[17:01:08] @ dmaxx : This will be the last SC chat, because the SC will be disbanded by tomorrow
[17:01:15] @ dmaxx : 5/7 was the deadline
[17:01:41] @ dmaxx : I will archive the SC section later
[17:03:24] Schneckl : some of the sc topics might be candidates for continuing discussion. Should we open new threads if we want that?
[17:03:58] @ dmaxx : No, I will transfer those to other sections
[17:04:40] Schneckl : I see
[17:05:58] @ dmaxx : I'll make a list of maintained topics afterwards
[17:13:03] @ dmaxx : -
[17:15:23] Schneckl : -
[17:28:21] dmaxx has been disconnected the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 17:28 (session timeout)
[17:29:25] dmaxx has joined the chat the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 17:29
[17:30:17] deejsasqui has joined the chat the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 17:30
[17:30:32] ultra_ambient : Hello Deej
[17:30:37] Schneckl has been disconnected the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 17:30 (session timeout)
[17:31:36] @ deejsasqui : Morning ultra ambient, dmaxx
[17:32:58] ultra_ambient : How are things in your corner of the world?
[17:34:33] @ deejsasqui : calm and quiet
[17:34:43] @ deejsasqui : it's 8:30 am here, and I have a sleepy cat on my lap
[17:35:18] ultra_ambient : Hope you didn't have a big night last night
[17:35:18] @ deejsasqui : I should be sleeping a bit more, but I was thirsty and decided to drink some cold coffee, instead of just getting a glass of water, so now I'm awake =)
[17:35:26] ultra_ambient : It's 1:30 am here
[17:35:57] @ deejsasqui : my night was pretty mellow - 4th of July was spent with my parents-in-law, sisters-in-law, wife and friends
[17:36:26] @ deejsasqui : since it's so late / early for you, is there anything you want to discuss before you head off?
[17:37:25] ultra_ambient : not at the moment. There is alot of material in the forums to digest
[17:37:30] Schneckl has joined the chat the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 17:37
[17:37:50] @ deejsasqui : morning Schneckl!
[17:38:08] @ deejsasqui : thanks for all your work so far on the db!
[17:38:16] @ dmaxx : Hi deejsasqui, hadn't seen u here yet
[17:38:28] @ deejsasqui : mornin' dmaxx .. I just arrived
[17:38:37] @ deejsasqui : and read through the comments so far
[17:38:40] @ dmaxx : It's 17.38 here Smile
[17:38:46] @ dmaxx : Not much happened
[17:39:01] @ deejsasqui : I'll also be archiving the discussion
[17:39:16] @ deejsasqui : yup - so what's to discuss today?
[17:39:42] @ dmaxx : How to organise future chat sessions
[17:39:48] @ dmaxx : As this is the last SC meeting
[17:39:55] @ dmaxx : SC will be disbanded today
[17:40:54] ultra_ambient : I am available every Saturday for chat
[17:40:56] @ deejsasqui : ok
[17:42:45] @ deejsasqui : still nothing from my initial posts to PHP Freaks and PHP Dev. Network
[17:43:03] @ deejsasqui : should I try to get more people interested by becoming involved on those sites?
[17:43:31] ultra_ambient : It can't hurt
[17:43:36] @ dmaxx : That would be nice
[17:43:43] @ dmaxx : We still need more coders
[17:44:13] @ dmaxx : We have some good coders now, but I'm not sure if it will be enough
[17:45:20] @ deejsasqui : It seems that the basic structure of the site isn't that hard to code (or Schneckl's better than he lets on =) - how will the next steps go? With data display, user entry and moderation / commenting?
[17:46:44] @ dmaxx : Maybe starting a test db for display and release entering
[17:47:57] Schneckl : -
[17:48:20] ultra_ambient : I'm afraid I'll be out of action for the next two weeks
[17:48:55] @ deejsasqui : ok
[17:49:06] @ dmaxx : How come?
[17:49:50] Schneckl : I think we can have a basic input interface soon, and also display...
[17:50:06] ultra_ambient : But after that I should be ok do start doing some work
[17:50:33] Schneckl : but it would be a testing-only situation, likely that the data would get purged at some point.
[17:50:53] ultra_ambient : I've got a course coming up in a week and I have to do the pre-requisites
[17:50:55] @ dmaxx : Obviously
[17:51:02] @ dmaxx : Oh ok
[17:51:44] @ dmaxx : Schnekl: be sure to let me know when something is online
[17:51:51] @ dmaxx : I'd be glad to help where I can
[17:52:08] Schneckl : i'll post of course.
[17:52:51] Schneckl : the next step i think will be describing the submission/moderation process in detail.
[17:53:35] Schneckl : as coding this has to be well thought-out, so that the system stays flexible
[17:53:58] @ dmaxx : Yes
[17:55:04] Schneckl : login/user management would be good to have too. might be basic as well, for the start
[17:55:10] @ deejsasqui : OK - I think that's a goal we can reach in a week or two
[17:55:30] @ deejsasqui : we have a lot of discussion on this area already, now we need to pull it together
[17:55:33] @ dmaxx : I think user-related stuff isn't the core priority, but it would be nice indeed
[17:55:46] Schneckl : yep.
[17:56:38] Schneckl : dmaxx: no not the user-related stuff but simply a logon so that people can play safely...
[17:57:45] Schneckl : ...now it's just a DB structure and people using it would need direct DB access and need to know what they do Smile
[17:58:35] @ dmaxx : Ok
[17:58:38] Schneckl : Then I guess we can call it an alpha version
[18:00:40] Schneckl : And I'd like to do some scalability test so that I know what happens, once there are 100k releases
[18:01:18] @ deejsasqui : will our current server setup work for this?
[18:03:27] Schneckl : My "own" setup: not too big but it should make 100k releases, i guess. I can then scale the processing time down for faster systems Smile
[18:03:43] @ deejsasqui : ok =)
[18:04:20] @ deejsasqui : looking at the wiki, there's already a page of submission process ideas >> http://veetoo.wikidot.com/submission-process-who-can-submit-sub-limits-needed-votes
[18:05:28] Schneckl : It's not so much about number of votes etc. but the algorithm
[18:06:22] Schneckl : "the instance a user starts a draft, a new submission number is generated"
[18:06:34] @ deejsasqui : ah - ok
[18:06:48] @ dmaxx : Hi Masakari
[18:06:52] @ deejsasqui : yeah - how are you handling artist and label names?
[18:06:56] @ deejsasqui : morning Masakari!
[18:07:16] Masakari : Goodday, deej, dmaxx, Schneckl & ultra!
[18:07:27] Schneckl : or "editing a page moves it to the users drafts and edit-locks that and that part..."
[18:07:52] Schneckl : hi masakari
[18:08:33] ultra_ambient : Hello Masakari
[18:08:43] Schneckl : deejsasqui: don't quite understand - names are text fields
[18:08:53] @ deejsasqui : and how merging releases will be handled
[18:08:54] @ dmaxx : Has there been thought about handling with symbols and non-western characters in URLs?
[18:09:00] @ dmaxx : Such as the label here: http://www.discogs.com/release/1387218
[18:09:23] @ deejsasqui : Schneckl - how would the artist and label pages be displayed? Discogs uses the /artist/ArtistName and label/LabelName format
[18:10:26] @ deejsasqui : whereas MusicBrainz uses a character string - Beck = http://musicbrainz.org/artist/309c62ba-7a22-4277-9f67-4a162526d18a.html
[18:10:55] Schneckl : ah i see. The discogs way would be best, and probably the fastest on the server
[18:11:15] @ dmaxx : I'd prefer Discogs' system, although those links aren't "permanent". When they are written down today they could change tomorrow due to renames
[18:11:17] @ deejsasqui : and RateYourMusic uses forced lower case characters
[18:11:23] Schneckl : most user-friendly
[18:11:31] @ deejsasqui : dmaxx: that's the issue I see
[18:11:50] @ deejsasqui : also, i think having an actual page link like that makes results easier for google to find ..
[18:12:01] ultra_ambient : We could set up redirections after name changes if that'll become an issue
[18:12:01] @ dmaxx : Can't we couple an ID to each artist, and use both the ID (fixed) and artistnames (changes)
[18:12:05] @ deejsasqui : I don't think I've found any MusicBrainz artist or label pages in my searches
[18:12:19] @ deejsasqui : dmaxx: no idea Wink
[18:12:42] @ dmaxx : www.discographydb.com/a/id?=1414864 == www.discographydb.com/a/Merzbow
[18:12:46] @ dmaxx : Something like that
[18:12:47] ultra_ambient : Or we could just leave a not on the redundant page outlining the history of the page
[18:12:49] @ dmaxx : Would be cool
[18:13:06] Schneckl : dmaxx - would have the same effect on search engines i think
[18:13:26] @ deejsasqui : yes - we need to have some history of name changes, if that's how we handle things
[18:13:47] @ deejsasqui : properly kept logs are critical, as the v4 chaos has shown us
[18:14:15] @ deejsasqui : we lost so much info in the transition - lots of discussions wiped out
[18:14:19] @ dmaxx : OT: I will now move the important topics from the SC to other categories, and place [SC] before the topictitle. I'll also make a list of moved topics.
[18:14:44] @ dmaxx : logs = essential
[18:15:05] Schneckl : noted - history of name changes. not too difficult.
[18:15:32] Schneckl : the main "log" would be the edit history of the pages
[18:16:06] @ deejsasqui : dmaxx - ok
[18:16:56] @ deejsasqui : dmaxx - only question: how will links work now, if someone posted a link to an archived discussion, will it be a dead link?
[18:18:45] @ dmaxx : No, the topics are being "copied"
[18:19:43] @ dmaxx : If you check out the Main you will somwhere in the middle: "Moved: More mission statement thoughts..." which links to the correct topic
[18:19:51] @ dmaxx : you will see* somwhere...
[18:20:37] @ deejsasqui : ok, sounds good
[18:22:54] Masakari has been disconnected the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 18:22 (session timeout)
[18:23:06] Masakari has joined the chat the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 18:23
[18:23:29] @ deejsasqui : OT: I'm working on the Release Data and Artist Data pages
[18:23:41] @ deejsasqui : because at the moment, they're mostly placeholder pages on the wiki
[18:24:41] Schneckl : Forgot to mention that we also need a description of the companies/labels/distributors hell. What are their attributes, what can happen to them.
[18:25:46] @ dmaxx : deejsasqui: nice thx
[18:26:13] @ dmaxx : Schnekl maybe open a new topic for this?
[18:26:26] @ dmaxx : Looks important indeed, as new DB fields need to be created for it
[18:26:50] @ deejsasqui : yeah - I think Schneckl's questions and progress could be tracked on the forum and wiki quite nicely
[18:27:05] Schneckl : I tried once but i don't have the experience to pose the right questions Smile It went nowhere.
[18:27:30] @ dmaxx : Any topics from the subcommittees that need to stay open? https://discogs.actieforum.com/subcommittees-f20/
[18:27:58] @ dmaxx : Just copy the line from 18:24:41 Smile
[18:28:12] Schneckl : I found a 900-something pages book that teaches techs a method which does exactly that Smile
[18:28:46] Schneckl : finding the right questions i mean Smile
[18:30:19] Schneckl : the old topic is here -> https://discogs.actieforum.com/5-technical-database-format-and-structure-f9/label-company-possible-data-structure-t215.htm
[18:30:45] @ dmaxx : We need to translate the text into fields

[18:30:54] @ dmaxx : So we need to know what fields are needed
[18:31:47] @ deejsasqui : dmaxx: I say we archive it all, and we can start those topics again with a summary of those threads
[18:32:39] Schneckl : I guess it's not much - Name, address, url, description.
[18:32:57] @ dmaxx : Ok, also lock this poll? https://discogs.actieforum.com/11-other-f15/scpublic-what-are-your-thoughts-on-ddb-t290.htm
[18:33:32] @ dmaxx : I thought there would be more topics to move...
[18:34:17] @ dmaxx : deejsasqui: I'll just continue to move, it aren't many topics anyway (about 5)
[18:35:16] Schneckl : The history is remarkably easy to capture, i think. Like expressing any event that can happen to a company in a standard sentence "<someone> did <something> to this company on <date>". That way, a whole complex history could be stored.
[18:35:30] @ deejsasqui : dmaxx: I think it's fine for you to close that poll.
[18:35:56] Schneckl : ...sorry don't want to interrupt you. I'll just add this to the old topic.
[18:37:20] @ dmaxx : That's Ok
[18:38:27] Masakari : Seems like a very loose discussion, so I throw in some other thoughts...
[18:39:18] @ deejsasqui : Schneckl: sounds good
[18:39:24] Masakari : ... how do we handle things like Led Zeppelin's albums (maybe you remember the back and forth, "Untitled" vs. "Led Zeppelin IV")
[18:39:49] Masakari : I mean, do we need a 2nd title field? Or is there a better way...
[18:40:08] little_alien has joined the chat the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 18:40
[18:40:24] Schneckl : masakari: need a "alternative title" field?
[18:40:29] Masakari : Hi little_alien!
[18:40:33] @ dmaxx : You mean a title field for unofficial titles?
[18:40:39] @ dmaxx : Hello little_alien
[18:40:40] little_alien : hi
[18:40:49] Schneckl : welcome back, l_a
[18:40:52] @ dmaxx : Maybe the subtitle field could be used for that?
[18:40:57] @ dmaxx : Or trivia?
[18:41:01] Masakari : ^^ yes. But I think there must be a better way to solve this problem
[18:41:10] @ dmaxx : "This release is alternatively called x"
[18:41:40] Masakari : ^^ but how is it listed on the artist's page?
[18:42:04] little_alien : Shocked
[18:42:10] little_alien is Disconnected on Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 18:42
[18:43:13] Masakari : Maybe we need do draw some information from this trivia (or wherever we store the alt. title) and put it to the title/next to it, ?...
[18:43:41] Schneckl : is it necessary to list on artists page... or will most often used title work
[18:44:03] @ dmaxx : I'd say most used title
[18:44:07] @ dmaxx : Works on Discogs too
[18:44:21] @ dmaxx : The search machine, however, should be able to find alternative titles
[18:44:31] Schneckl : let's make this nik style, "deal with it when the problem arises"? Smile
[18:45:04] Masakari : Then we should mark it some way - maybe in italics in contrast to an official title.
[18:45:13] Masakari : Schneckl: Smile
[18:46:43] @ dmaxx : Maybe a small icon
[18:46:51] @ dmaxx : With an infolabel when hoovering over it
[18:47:23] @ dmaxx : And if a release has two or more alternative titles: more icons
[18:48:07] Schneckl : Have a special markup in the title field, like "Title1 (Alternate Tilte: Title2)" would work at once in lists and search, without special coding
[18:49:01] Schneckl : ...that can be parsed and icons/italics/whatever displayed
[18:49:05] Masakari : --> "Untitled [Alternative Title: Led Zeppelin IV]"?
[18:49:19] Schneckl : yep.
[18:49:39] Schneckl : precise and clear Smile
[18:49:44] @ dmaxx : Good
[18:49:53] Masakari : I'm just bringing this up, as - again - requires more coding (or whatsoever) Smile
[18:50:12] @ dmaxx : But shorten "Alternative Title" to "AT"
[18:50:14] Schneckl : ...Only a bit difficult for beginners
[18:50:33] @ dmaxx : Will someone write it down somewhere? So it doesn't get lost here?
[18:51:18] @ deejsasqui : -
[18:52:49] Schneckl : I did note it but you might want to discuss in the forum.
[18:53:47] @ dmaxx : Will someone with time make a topic? I'm currently organising the forum
[18:57:59] Masakari : OT: by the way, how long did it take you, Schneckl, to work out the basic structure and the *.pdf?
[18:59:01] @ dmaxx : corne_mo and deejsasqui now have "Manager" status
[19:00:19] Schneckl : I did both at once, and the schema was done automatically. Some hours on Wed. and another 5 or so on Thu. finishing the text
[19:00:47] Schneckl : about 12 hours i'd say
[19:00:52] @ dmaxx : I will keep the SC forums a few more hours open to discuss todays chat session
[19:01:05] @ dmaxx : Schnekl wow thx
[19:01:26] Schneckl : spent Mo and Tue reading books Smile
[19:01:59] @ dmaxx : Hmm... since I removed the SCmember status nobody will be able to post in there... Better archive at once
[19:02:06] Masakari : OT: yeah, I thought so... many thanx for your time!
[19:02:51] Schneckl : NP we want to see this happen
[19:05:46] Schneckl : brb.
[19:06:18] deejsasqui has been disconnected the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 19:06 (session timeout)
[19:07:48] @ dmaxx : Should be something like that...
[19:08:05] @ dmaxx : Wish I could make the contents of "Archive" invisible
[19:08:10] @ dmaxx : on the front page
[19:09:15] Masakari : why's that? is there a problem when users have easy access to the archives?
[19:11:34] deejsasqui has joined the chat the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 19:11
[19:13:04] @ dmaxx : No, just the page is getting a bit long
[19:13:23] @ dmaxx : I'd like to "close" the archive folder on the frontpage
[19:13:31] @ dmaxx : Not really make the contents invisible
[19:14:31] @ deejsasqui : bouncing back a topic - what to do with titles that are translated on the release? Should we also allow the Alternative Titles to be used for this?
[19:15:18] @ dmaxx : Fine for me
[19:16:38] @ deejsasqui : OK - I'll add that to the wiki
[19:17:16] Masakari : Allow the Alt. Title INSTEAD of the original title, or along with it?
[19:18:43] Masakari : Some classical releases had its title translated into two more languages - that's quite a problem when it comes to displaying them properly
[19:19:37] @ deejsasqui : Masakari - what are the display options for those?
[19:20:49] Schneckl has been disconnected the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 19:20 (session timeout)
[19:21:22] Masakari : I have no clue - but using the "(Alternative Title: ... )"-field for that (this has been proposed further up) could be a mess...
[19:21:49] @ dmaxx : Yes it would
[19:21:58] @ dmaxx : Especially with more than one translation
[19:21:58] Masakari : I'm currently searching one of those releases in discogs... just a minute...
[19:24:45] Schneckl has joined the chat the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 19:24
[19:25:09] Masakari : Ok, this is just the tracklisting (not the release title), but the concept is the same: http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=984837 (scroll half-way down to the back cover)
[19:26:13] @ dmaxx : Yes I see
[19:26:16] @ dmaxx : Annoying
[19:26:46] @ dmaxx : Just thinking: why not list it all exactly as on release?
[19:26:54] @ dmaxx : So dropping it all in one tracklist
[19:27:10] @ deejsasqui : eck - computer locked up, and now I need to clean my house, but I'll be back later to finish working on the wiki, pull stuff from this discussion, and go from there
[19:27:20] Masakari : In a row, or one beneath the other?
[19:27:33] @ deejsasqui : in regards to tomorrow - I'll be in and out at best
[19:27:40] @ dmaxx : Ok deejsasqui see you
[19:27:43] @ deejsasqui : I'll check y'all on the forums =)
[19:11:34] deejsasqui has joined the chat the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 19:11
[19:13:04] @ dmaxx : No, just the page is getting a bit long
[19:13:23] @ dmaxx : I'd like to "close" the archive folder on the frontpage
[19:13:31] @ dmaxx : Not really make the contents invisible
[19:14:31] @ deejsasqui : bouncing back a topic - what to do with titles that are translated on the release? Should we also allow the Alternative Titles to be used for this?
[19:15:18] @ dmaxx : Fine for me
[19:16:38] @ deejsasqui : OK - I'll add that to the wiki
[19:17:16] Masakari : Allow the Alt. Title INSTEAD of the original title, or along with it?
[19:18:43] Masakari : Some classical releases had its title translated into two more languages - that's quite a problem when it comes to displaying them properly
[19:19:37] @ deejsasqui : Masakari - what are the display options for those?
[19:20:49] Schneckl has been disconnected the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 19:20 (session timeout)
[19:21:22] Masakari : I have no clue - but using the "(Alternative Title: ... )"-field for that (this has been proposed further up) could be a mess...
[19:21:49] @ dmaxx : Yes it would
[19:21:58] @ dmaxx : Especially with more than one translation
[19:21:58] Masakari : I'm currently searching one of those releases in discogs... just a minute...
[19:24:45] Schneckl has joined the chat the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 19:24
[19:25:09] Masakari : Ok, this is just the tracklisting (not the release title), but the concept is the same: http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=984837 (scroll half-way down to the back cover)
[19:26:13] @ dmaxx : Yes I see
[19:26:16] @ dmaxx : Annoying
[19:26:46] @ dmaxx : Just thinking: why not list it all exactly as on release?
[19:26:54] @ dmaxx : So dropping it all in one tracklist
[19:27:10] @ deejsasqui : eck - computer locked up, and now I need to clean my house, but I'll be back later to finish working on the wiki, pull stuff from this discussion, and go from there
[19:27:20] Masakari : In a row, or one beneath the other?
[19:27:33] @ deejsasqui : in regards to tomorrow - I'll be in and out at best
[19:27:40] @ dmaxx : Ok deejsasqui see you
[19:27:43] @ deejsasqui : I'll check y'all on the forums =)
[19:27:46] deejsasqui is Disconnected on Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 19:27
[19:27:55] Masakari : Cheers, deej!
[19:29:08] Gizmex has joined the chat the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 19:29
[19:29:21] @ dmaxx : Hi Gizmex
[19:29:26] Gizmex : Hi @ll, how are You
[19:29:38] Masakari : Hi Gizmex!
[19:29:55] Gizmex : I was away some time, but still watching & ready for help
[19:32:23] Schneckl : -
[19:32:37] Masakari : Good to hear that you're still here. Do you happen to have the ability to code Wink
[19:32:47] Gizmex : Hi Masakari I'm really impressed with Your layout works, I think it's definetly the way we should go, thanks for this biig step forward
[19:35:34] Masakari : No problem, thx!
[19:35:46] Masakari : Back on topic... I've ten minutes left...
[19:37:15] Masakari : When we use all three different track titles (= in three different languages) - how is the track title stored in Schneckls release_tracks table?
[19:37:22] @ dmaxx : What still needs to be discussed?
[19:37:31] @ dmaxx : Oh that
[19:37:40] @ dmaxx : Difficult
[19:38:07] @ dmaxx : I'm afraid my technical abilities aren't good enough to answer that
[19:38:51] Masakari : Me too - guess we need Schneckls helping hand :-)
[19:38:51] Schneckl : Most easy to handle would be like/the/discogs/example
[19:39:28] Masakari : Can we then store "Returns", i.e. line breaks inthe track title?
[19:39:58] Schneckl : because the search should not have to handle such special cases, i'd throw them together internally anyway Smile
[19:40:29] Schneckl : masakari: yes we can
[19:40:45] Masakari : ok, that's cool
[19:41:10] Schneckl : ...but that's layout. we don't transcribe the layout, do we?
[19:43:07] @ dmaxx : code issues before layout atm
[19:43:43] Masakari : As far as I know, it's still open to discussion, how far we go with "As-on-release" - so I'm unceartain with that
[19:45:54] Schneckl : ok but anyway, line breaks can be encoded. They only have to be handled at the display side, making them html breaks
[19:47:47] Masakari : ugh, that's a can of worms, me thinks ... do we allow html-tags or not? As far as i remember someone suggested to use internal tags... i.e. '[' instead of '<', etc.
[19:48:21] @ dmaxx : Difficult decision
[19:48:36] @ dmaxx : I think it's too important to decide at this moment
[19:48:48] Masakari : ^ true!
[19:50:02] Masakari : Ok, what we have is: we can store track names in different languages in one track field (display issues to be discussed).
[19:50:20] Masakari : Does the same apply to the release title?
[19:50:51] Masakari : Or is "(Alternative Title: )" the better choice?
[19:51:27] @ dmaxx : I'd say Alternative Title
[19:52:31] Masakari : But is this an alternative title if it says "The complete works of: / Die kompletten Werke von:" on the cover?
[19:53:10] Masakari : --> "The Complete Works of ... (Alternative Title: Die Kompletten Werke Von...)" ?
[19:53:18] Kergillian has joined the chat the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 19:53
[19:53:25] Kergillian : morning all
[19:53:39] @ dmaxx : Hi Kergillian
[19:53:40] Masakari : good evening!
[19:53:52] Gizmex : Hi Kergillian
[19:54:14] @ dmaxx : Masakari: I'd say there's a difference between 1) diff languages 2) alternative titles
[19:54:21] Kergillian : I've just moved last weekend and have apparently missed quite a bit this week!
[19:54:46] @ dmaxx : This session is going on for a while yes Smile
[19:55:23] @ dmaxx : I think we should treat diff languages and alternative titles differently
[19:55:28] Masakari : dmaxx: yes, there is! But how do we handle such informatoin? That's why I asked :-)
[19:56:07] @ dmaxx : I'll try to find an example for 2) alternative titles
[19:56:07] Kergillian : why not just lisrt it as on release?
[19:56:38] @ dmaxx : unofficial title: http://www.discogs.com/release/432760
[19:56:59] @ dmaxx : ^ counter-example for "why not just lisrt it as on release?"
[19:57:52] @ dmaxx : Alternative titles aren't necessarily listed on the release
[19:58:28] @ dmaxx : For example http://www.discogs.com/release/332510 : all untitled on vinyl, but names on website
[19:58:43] ultra_ambient is Disconnected on Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 19:58
[19:59:37] Masakari : Yeah, I understand what alt. titles are. But the example given above doesn't fall into this category ("The complete.../Die kompletten..") --> that means "As-on-release" like with the track titles?
[20:00:46] @ dmaxx : The first example?
[20:00:57] Schneckl has been disconnected the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 20:00 (session timeout)
[20:01:24] Schneckl has joined the chat the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 20:01
[20:01:26] Masakari : No, my fictional example with the two languages.
[20:01:40] @ dmaxx : Oh that one
[20:01:45] @ dmaxx : As on release
[20:02:03] Masakari : Ok!
[20:02:52] @ dmaxx : How should we handle translations outside of the release?
[20:03:00] @ dmaxx : I'll show you an example
[20:03:20] @ dmaxx : notes: http://www.discogs.com/release/123378
[20:03:42] @ dmaxx : I think we should allow this somehow, as it might be very handy to search the release

[20:06:00] Masakari : --> "Annotations" with a footnote in the original tracklisting showing that there's a translation? If it's not correcting release data, it shouldn't be listed in one of the other sections, me thinks.
[20:06:53] @ dmaxx : In what category would this be placed? Trivia?
[20:06:58] @ dmaxx : Trivia seems fine to me
[20:07:03] Masakari : Good luck with this one: http://www.discogs.com/release/1167240 (without html tags, it's a long list :-)
[20:07:06] @ dmaxx : "Annotations" in Trivia section
[20:07:29] @ dmaxx : OMG
[20:07:54] Kergillian : sorry - dorrbell
[20:08:19] Kergillian : 1) titles on website should be listed and then noted in the notes section
[20:08:26] Kergillian : (noted where the title came from)
[20:08:35] Masakari : When we have the "Errata & Annotation" section in the Trivia-tab - that'd be perfect for such things (with possible footnotes)
[20:08:39] Kergillian : 2) multiple titles on release should be written as one release
[20:08:53] Kergillian : 3) Self-translated titles should be relegated to the notes
[20:09:02] Gizmex has been disconnected the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 20:09 (session timeout)
[20:09:25] Kergillian : and personally I am against html tags in any field other than the notes section
[20:10:04] @ dmaxx : I'm personally against all use of HTML to prevent abuse. Even notes should rely on forum style tags
[20:10:09] Schneckl : -
[20:10:11] Masakari : IMO we shouldn't allow ANY html-tags - but introduce our own formatting tags (but that's another story).
[20:10:14] @ dmaxx : [b] [i] [u] and that's all
[20:10:29] Kergillian : agree w/Masakari - non-official translations can go in the errata section
[20:10:29] Masakari : and [tab]
[20:10:29] @ dmaxx : Seems like I and Masakari agree
[20:10:34] @ dmaxx : Good one
[20:10:45] Masakari : for table - just a brain fart
[20:11:21] Schneckl : yes only specific tags allowed + forum style
[20:11:46] Schneckl : ...not critical for initial version though
[20:12:01] Masakari : Ok, I'm already way tooo late.... cheerio!
[20:12:42] Masakari is Disconnected on Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 20:12
[20:13:34] @ dmaxx : Lunch time, BBL
[20:20:08] Schneckl : -
[20:22:50] Schneckl : dinner time..
[20:29:28] dmaxx has been disconnected the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 20:29 (session timeout)
[20:29:34] dmaxx has joined the chat the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 20:29
[20:30:02] deejsasqui has joined the chat the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 20:30
[20:30:24] @ dmaxx : Hi
[20:31:34] Kergillian has been disconnected the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 20:31 (session timeout)
[20:33:23] @ deejsasqui : howdy dmaxx
[20:33:32] @ deejsasqui : looks like I' missed the end of the discussion
[20:38:10] Schneckl has been disconnected the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 20:38 (session timeout)
[20:45:16] dmaxx is Disconnected on Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 20:45
[20:45:16] dmaxx has joined the chat the Sat 5 Jul 2008 - 20:45
[20:45:28] @ dmaxx : I will post it online soon
[20:45:43] @ dmaxx : Straight in the archives... lol
[20:45:51] @ dmaxx : Unless someone wants me to unlock it
[20:50:04] @ deejsasqui : OK - we can discuss it elsewhere
[20:51:07] @ deejsasqui : I'm going to finish up the wiki work - my USB devices locked up, so I couldn't use my computer and lost my (minimal) progress
[20:58:20] @ deejsasqui : howdy Schneckl
[20:58:27] @ deejsasqui : it seems I came back after most things were discussed.
[21:08:05] @ deejsasqui : I'm just working on the wiki now